Pre-dive hydration

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Gene_Hobbs

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This just out as an e-pub:

Gempp E, Blatteau JE, Pontier JM, Balestra C, Louge P. Preventive Effect Of Pre-Dive Hydration On Bubble Formation In Divers. Br J Sports Med. 2008 Mar 4; [Epub ahead of print] PubMed ID: 18308884

Stay up to date with The Rubicon Review.
 
You mean Heather's probably got a good reason for sucking off that Big Gulp right up until she zips up her dry suit?

All kidding aside, this is interesting information, and supports a position I've scoffed at, which is that aggressive hydration right before diving is useful.
 
This just out as an e-pub:

Gempp E, Blatteau JE, Pontier JM, Balestra C, Louge P. Preventive Effect Of Pre-Dive Hydration On Bubble Formation In Divers. Br J Sports Med. 2008 Mar 4; [Epub ahead of print] PubMed ID: 18308884

Stay up to date with The Rubicon Review.

Thanks Gene. What is interesting is I have always believed this to be true but I was never sure how much fluid would make a difference. Now we have a good baseline to work from.
 
Wow, if I need to start drinking 1.3Liters of fluid before a dive I'll need to install a pee-valve in my semi-dry...
 
Glad to read this, I'll certainly share it with my regular buddy. I'd kinda got this general idea - drink more, extra salt and sugar: "saline-glucose beverage" from the article, altho I don't have the sources for where I got those ideas. Increase blood volume to dilute bubbles was my thot. I also had the idea that one had to increase intake the night before which makes for a lot of nocturnal head calls; nice to know it does help the morning of.

Wonder how much salt and sugar they used?
 
Looked at a number of interesting abstracts there including ones about exercise.

With regard to hydration: Some people have said to start hydrating days before diving. I always thought this to be silly since you can see an increase in urine production within an hour or so of drinking a big slug of water. If the kidney starts dumping excess water so fast, why should it take days for the blood fluid volume and (maybe tissues) to get to an optimal level? This is really a question, since I do not know how urine production and over-all hydration are related?
 
All kidding aside, this is interesting information, and supports a position I've scoffed at, which is that aggressive hydration right before diving is useful.

It's funny because I always held that cellular fluid levels would have been more important than small to moderate volume depletion. This leads me to second guess that a little more.

So, do we start counting compressed gas breathing as third space loss? :popcorn:
 
I would encourage everyone to be slow about using any single paper, especially one from this small a study, to change the way they feel about any scientific topic. Scientists routinely make errors in study design, study execution, and statistical analysis. Even when we manage to avoid all these pitfalls, we are still vulnerable to arriving at incorrect conclusions about the results. This study presumes (among many things) the connection between venous bubbles and DCS, and futher presumes the reduction of venous bubbles will produce an associated drop in the risk of DCS. These are not unreasonable presumptions, but they are also somewhat controversial, and by no means scientifically settled. Not to mention that there is no data in this particular paper that specifically supports or refutes these presumptions. The findings actually were:

1) They found that venous bubbles were less in the hydrated group (barely significant, not enough subjects to be very confident in this result).

2)They found that pre-dive hydration increased plasma volume and that diving decreased plasma volume. Pretty basic physiology, but reassuring to see it still works.

3) Surface tension did not change with hydration or diving. Also (though not super clear from the way they phrased it) for some reason, even with the crossover design, the subjects all tended to have lower ST scores at the beginning of the hydration trial (before the hydration and diving actually occurred). This is interesting, since this was the protocol that produced lower bubbling. If you believe that decreased surface tension leads to less bubbles, then protocol 1 was biased to a low bubble score before they even drank the fluid, or got in the water. If truly biased, it would be hard to figure out whether it came by chance (again, only 8 people) or if this was an unexpected and undetected consequence of their protcol design.

4) Finally, they reported some physiologic results that are fairly expected findings, given the physiology involved.

That's it. Straight from their results section. Now go through the discussion and see how many sentences are devoted to discussing these findings, and how many roam far afield trying to connect the dots to DCS. It could all be true, but not from this paper. Which is why you have to suspend judgement while you accumulate information from many sources before you can really be sure about anything. And sometimes you will still be wrong.

Robert W. Perkins, MD, MPH
LCDR, MC, USN (DMO)
Head, Biomedical Research
Navy Experimental Diving Unit
 
Looked at a number of interesting abstracts there including ones about exercise.

With regard to hydration: Some people have said to start hydrating days before diving. I always thought this to be silly since you can see an increase in urine production within an hour or so of drinking a big slug of water. If the kidney starts dumping excess water so fast, why should it take days for the blood fluid volume and (maybe tissues) to get to an optimal level? This is really a question, since I do not know how urine production and over-all hydration are related?

dD,

The kidneys do respond quickly to a fluid bolus (doctorese for "big slug"), but you can't assume they automatically eliminate as much water as you just drank. If they did, you could never catch up. If they eliminate only 10%, it would not take much time to hydrate up, since the remainder would stay in the blood, some of which then migrates out to the tissues and then into the cells. If they eliminate 55% of what you drank (leaving 45% behind), it would take longer to increase overall hydration, since only half as much water was now available to diffuse out to the body. The chemistry that controls the percentage is very complicated (even for most of us non-nephrology docs), but you get the basic idea.

Robert W. Perkins, MD, MPH
LCDR, MC, USN (DMO)
Head, Biomedical Research
Navy Experimental Diving Unit
 
Hello Readers:

I have been in the hospital for neck surgery since March 3. I am just getting to the postings.

Abstract versus Paper

I have access only to the abstract. I do not have any details beyond the sketchy presentation.

Sample Size

This paper employed only eight subjects. That is a very small number, and it would be difficult to make firm conclusions. I cannot say that I am waiting “with baited breath” to read the complete paper. As NEDU wrote, this paper is not very definite because of the small sample size [and possibly other reasons].

Gas Loading

The dive profile given is not particularly severe and would not be expected to produce many Doppler-detectable bubbles. Thus, a result based on “bubble counts” is marginal, at best. While a crossover design is nice [my preference], without the complete paper, I cannot imagine that individual Doppler differences would be significant.

Doppler Bubbles and Surface Tension

This paper appears seems to have as a premise that Doppler bubbles will correlate with joint-pain DCS. There is a marginal correlation at best and only in larger sample sizes. DCS joint pain is almost assuredly caused by an extravascular gas phase, ie, not Doppler detectable.

The next premise is the connection between plasma surface tension and extra vascular surface tension. The higher the surface tension [more water-like], the more difficult it is for micronuclei to grow and become bubbles. The lower the surface tension [such as one can achieve by adding soap to water], the easier it is to form bubbles and increase their stability.


Dr Deco :doctor:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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