So the discussion of these devices in the other thread got me thinking. To any of you that have used one of these, how loud are they? I have to believe that utilizing one of these underwater will generate a pretty serious sound wave or does the water actually have a dampening affect?
Powderheads/Bangsticks
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Wookie
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Depends on the design. A powerhead (fits over a spear tip) is machined to accept a shell, usually a 410 or .40 cal, and have the spear tip engage the primer when it hits. The idea is not to blast the fish, but to fill it with gas. The explosion is contained in the powerhead and in the fish. Usually used to fish for large fish like Goliath grouper.
A bang stick is similar, except it is hand held. It is used to defend yourself, so you aren't trying to kill the fish, you are trying to make it happier somewhere else. I've seen them triggered like a powerhead and also with a trigger. They tend to not go off directly against the fish, so there may be more of a shock wave, but I wouldn't call it loud.
A bang stick is similar, except it is hand held. It is used to defend yourself, so you aren't trying to kill the fish, you are trying to make it happier somewhere else. I've seen them triggered like a powerhead and also with a trigger. They tend to not go off directly against the fish, so there may be more of a shock wave, but I wouldn't call it loud.
100days-a-year
Contributor
Link to that thread?
Not dangerously loud but sharp and semi directional.The loudest I've observed over hundreds of rounds being shot near me was a .44 on the other side of a hull only feet away and a .223 while swimming over a concrete manhole that seemed to focus the sound up.
They are predominately .38/.357s as bigger charges do too much damage.
If they were very loud,few of the spearfishermen in NE FL would have any hearing.
Not dangerously loud but sharp and semi directional.The loudest I've observed over hundreds of rounds being shot near me was a .44 on the other side of a hull only feet away and a .223 while swimming over a concrete manhole that seemed to focus the sound up.
They are predominately .38/.357s as bigger charges do too much damage.
If they were very loud,few of the spearfishermen in NE FL would have any hearing.
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@Wookie,
100days-a-year
The power head aka point impact point was designed and developed by the late great Bottom Scratcher Jack Prodonovic of San Diego in 1943
The Bang Stick was designed and developed by the late great Australian spear fisherman (Spero in Aussie lingo) approximately the same era.
Lets remember their efforts and contributions and honor their pioneering efforts.in advancing the noble art and science of spear fishing and not become revisionist or join the I think, I was told, I heard, I believe brigade --they are in ample supply and their statements are often devoid of facts devoid of facts
FYI
Power heads & bang sticks--there is a difference !!
The following is an excerpt from a article I authored so many years ago. Might be helpful in understanding the difference between a "power head" and a "bang stick"---there is a difference!
Power Heads and Bang Sticks
by Dr.Samuel Miller
The "power head" and the "bang stick" are not synonyms, though they could be considered distant cousins. Both use a gunpowder cartridge, but the similarity ends there. The powerhead is shot from a speargun and uses the cartridge to force a dart through the fish. The bang stick is uses the cartridge's concussive effect to kill the fish.
Power heads
The power head was a point-impact spear point which contained a propellant, generally a .22 caliber or .38 caliber shell, which when fired, drove a spear point called a "dart" into and hopefully through the fish. There were two separate lines on the gun: one a shooting line, the other attached to the dart. The dart line was in turn attached to probably 200 feet of W.W.II of surplus parachute line which terminated in an inflatable device generally a surplus W.W.II Mae West. This component was contained in a "line pack," which was some how attached, generally via bands, to the barrel of the gun.
The "power head" which is distinctly unique to Southern California, was developed in San Diego in the 1940s by the grand old man Jack Prodonovic. Jack's model was small and compact. It was powered by a .22 caliber rife shell and was unique in that it was cocked by the inertia of firing. A very desirable feature since it eliminated the need to cock it or carry it armed. Those that know Jack well realize that in addition to having hearing problems like all divers of the Viagra generation, he is blind in one eye. This was caused by the power head being rebounded back to him when he was test firing it in a swimming pool. Jacks account of this accident can be found in a 1950's issue of Skin Diver Magazine.
Herb Sampson, of Costa Mesa, was second to developed a power head. Herb's was big and massive and propelled by a .38 caliber pistol shell. Like his spear gun it had unique threads on the shaft - 1/4-24 (as I recall,) so it could only be attached to his gun if adapters were used. The gun, with its twin line releases, his special line pack, and the power head were "the gun" for a number of years, and at one time held more world records than any other spear gun. (Which is how the Sampson got the name "World Record Gun" - ed.)
I would be remiss with out mentioning my dear friend Ron Merker who was unbelievable with this gun. Ron established three world records including the blue fin tuna which he held for 20 plus years. I often think about things of long ago, and I just recalled the prices of the Sampson, the gun $37.50,(after I got to know Herb well he sold them to me for $23.10 (don't ask about the 10 cents that was just Herb)) the line pack $7.50 and the power head $37.50
Bill Barada, of Los Angeles, was all over diving in the pioneering days and contributed to much; About a dozen books including 2 hard backs on spear fishing, the original dry suit, developed the Hammer head muzzle for the Arbalete, established the Neptunes, etc., the list goes on and on. He also developed the .38 caliber "Thunder Head" power head. It was his biggest failure. Both the Prodonovic and the Sampson power heads had triggering mechanisms that extended about a foot in front of the unit and acted as a trigger when it came in contact with a fish. The Thunder Head relied on the point making contact with the fish exactly like the bang stick. As taught in freshman physics every action has an equal and opposite reaction so the arrow being free flight would often, by the laws of physics, be propelled back at the diver if the object that was struck was hard or impenetrable. Even though it was a dismal failure and was on the market for a short time, there is a picture of this unit in the 1950's book "Dive" by the Carriers. I can't recall a good picture of the Prodonovic or the Sampson in any book.
Bang Sticks
The "Bang Stick" was, so far as can be determined, perfected down under in Australia, probably by Wally Gibbons. I first recall seeing it in action in the early 1960's at an under water film festival. Aussies presented a movie in which it was used to dispatch sharks. It is composed of a barrel, which holds the propellant, any thing from a small caliber pistol cartridge to a very large caliber rifle cartridge and even 12 gauge shoot gun shells, which must have a rim to hold it in place and ample clearance to allow it to freely travel back and fourth in the barrel, and a firing pin to , all of which should be attached to a pole spear-- a long pole spear.
The operation is quite simple, the propellant slides into the barrel and extends out the firing side about 1/2 inch. The back/firing pin which should contain a safety constructed of a cotter pin inserted crosswise is attached to the barrel. When the prey is spotted the cotter pin is removed, which arms the spear. The spear is grasped, the sling stretched to maximum length like a pole spear and released striking the prey. Upon contact the cartridge is driven up the barrel making contact with the firing pin igniting the cartridge and propelling the charge into the prey. Very simple and effective.
It was serendipiously discovered that an effective inexpensive Bang Stick could be constructed from items avaliable at the local hardware store; (which I am not going to reveal in this article)
An American, Rhett Mc Nair, lived in Anaheim, California developed and tried unsuccessfully to market a six shooter bang stick about the time the CO2 powered "Shark Dart" was introduced. only a few of Rhett's were produced, but many Shark Darts were made
My diving buddy at the time the late Jack Waite (note SDM first edition) and I went to a gun dealer, Hy Hunter in Pasadena purchased a very cheap and beat up .38, cut off the barrel, tossed the handles, and allowed Uncle Sam to fabricate a three foot trigger extension which was welded in place of the gun handle. With six .38s available and placed next to a fish's face, it did wonders to persuade the stubborn BSB to surface & Baja fish to exit their holes; they received an an offer they couldn't refuse.
The cartridges were water proofed several ways, they could be coated with nail polish, spar varnish or my favorite was a automobile radiator sealant. After one submersion they were always discarded. ( I just toos the last of my 38 Wad cuuter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About 1958 the US government got into the act. Power heads were at that time were classified as firearms, and fell into the same category as sawed off shot guns, machine guns etc. Therefore they were illegal to posses or use. Finally the government decreed that they could be rendered legal IF they were solidly attached to a shaft longer than 18 inches. By that time the age of the power head was passing into history, so the law was essentially ineffective. I have no idea how the shops legally sell bang sticks in today's government controlled market place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most of my experience has been with the 38 Caliber Samson power head -- It is loud and can and has "rang my bell" on several instances when I was a wee bit too close or encased in a kelp canopy.
My tribe had several rules -Use only with a clear shot in relatively open water (difficult when you hunt in kelp) don't fire toward the surface - the sound will be bounced back, and don't fire into a hole, never ever fire into a hole when you are near.
We made our own 20 gauge bang sticks from common items and always used near the surface to send a message toa BSB - which was the last message they received .
Hope this helps and remember the difference between a Power head and a Bang Stick
SDM
100days-a-year
The power head aka point impact point was designed and developed by the late great Bottom Scratcher Jack Prodonovic of San Diego in 1943
The Bang Stick was designed and developed by the late great Australian spear fisherman (Spero in Aussie lingo) approximately the same era.
Lets remember their efforts and contributions and honor their pioneering efforts.in advancing the noble art and science of spear fishing and not become revisionist or join the I think, I was told, I heard, I believe brigade --they are in ample supply and their statements are often devoid of facts devoid of facts
FYI
Power heads & bang sticks--there is a difference !!
The following is an excerpt from a article I authored so many years ago. Might be helpful in understanding the difference between a "power head" and a "bang stick"---there is a difference!
Power Heads and Bang Sticks
by Dr.Samuel Miller
The "power head" and the "bang stick" are not synonyms, though they could be considered distant cousins. Both use a gunpowder cartridge, but the similarity ends there. The powerhead is shot from a speargun and uses the cartridge to force a dart through the fish. The bang stick is uses the cartridge's concussive effect to kill the fish.
Power heads
The power head was a point-impact spear point which contained a propellant, generally a .22 caliber or .38 caliber shell, which when fired, drove a spear point called a "dart" into and hopefully through the fish. There were two separate lines on the gun: one a shooting line, the other attached to the dart. The dart line was in turn attached to probably 200 feet of W.W.II of surplus parachute line which terminated in an inflatable device generally a surplus W.W.II Mae West. This component was contained in a "line pack," which was some how attached, generally via bands, to the barrel of the gun.
The "power head" which is distinctly unique to Southern California, was developed in San Diego in the 1940s by the grand old man Jack Prodonovic. Jack's model was small and compact. It was powered by a .22 caliber rife shell and was unique in that it was cocked by the inertia of firing. A very desirable feature since it eliminated the need to cock it or carry it armed. Those that know Jack well realize that in addition to having hearing problems like all divers of the Viagra generation, he is blind in one eye. This was caused by the power head being rebounded back to him when he was test firing it in a swimming pool. Jacks account of this accident can be found in a 1950's issue of Skin Diver Magazine.
Herb Sampson, of Costa Mesa, was second to developed a power head. Herb's was big and massive and propelled by a .38 caliber pistol shell. Like his spear gun it had unique threads on the shaft - 1/4-24 (as I recall,) so it could only be attached to his gun if adapters were used. The gun, with its twin line releases, his special line pack, and the power head were "the gun" for a number of years, and at one time held more world records than any other spear gun. (Which is how the Sampson got the name "World Record Gun" - ed.)
I would be remiss with out mentioning my dear friend Ron Merker who was unbelievable with this gun. Ron established three world records including the blue fin tuna which he held for 20 plus years. I often think about things of long ago, and I just recalled the prices of the Sampson, the gun $37.50,(after I got to know Herb well he sold them to me for $23.10 (don't ask about the 10 cents that was just Herb)) the line pack $7.50 and the power head $37.50
Bill Barada, of Los Angeles, was all over diving in the pioneering days and contributed to much; About a dozen books including 2 hard backs on spear fishing, the original dry suit, developed the Hammer head muzzle for the Arbalete, established the Neptunes, etc., the list goes on and on. He also developed the .38 caliber "Thunder Head" power head. It was his biggest failure. Both the Prodonovic and the Sampson power heads had triggering mechanisms that extended about a foot in front of the unit and acted as a trigger when it came in contact with a fish. The Thunder Head relied on the point making contact with the fish exactly like the bang stick. As taught in freshman physics every action has an equal and opposite reaction so the arrow being free flight would often, by the laws of physics, be propelled back at the diver if the object that was struck was hard or impenetrable. Even though it was a dismal failure and was on the market for a short time, there is a picture of this unit in the 1950's book "Dive" by the Carriers. I can't recall a good picture of the Prodonovic or the Sampson in any book.
Bang Sticks
The "Bang Stick" was, so far as can be determined, perfected down under in Australia, probably by Wally Gibbons. I first recall seeing it in action in the early 1960's at an under water film festival. Aussies presented a movie in which it was used to dispatch sharks. It is composed of a barrel, which holds the propellant, any thing from a small caliber pistol cartridge to a very large caliber rifle cartridge and even 12 gauge shoot gun shells, which must have a rim to hold it in place and ample clearance to allow it to freely travel back and fourth in the barrel, and a firing pin to , all of which should be attached to a pole spear-- a long pole spear.
The operation is quite simple, the propellant slides into the barrel and extends out the firing side about 1/2 inch. The back/firing pin which should contain a safety constructed of a cotter pin inserted crosswise is attached to the barrel. When the prey is spotted the cotter pin is removed, which arms the spear. The spear is grasped, the sling stretched to maximum length like a pole spear and released striking the prey. Upon contact the cartridge is driven up the barrel making contact with the firing pin igniting the cartridge and propelling the charge into the prey. Very simple and effective.
It was serendipiously discovered that an effective inexpensive Bang Stick could be constructed from items avaliable at the local hardware store; (which I am not going to reveal in this article)
An American, Rhett Mc Nair, lived in Anaheim, California developed and tried unsuccessfully to market a six shooter bang stick about the time the CO2 powered "Shark Dart" was introduced. only a few of Rhett's were produced, but many Shark Darts were made
My diving buddy at the time the late Jack Waite (note SDM first edition) and I went to a gun dealer, Hy Hunter in Pasadena purchased a very cheap and beat up .38, cut off the barrel, tossed the handles, and allowed Uncle Sam to fabricate a three foot trigger extension which was welded in place of the gun handle. With six .38s available and placed next to a fish's face, it did wonders to persuade the stubborn BSB to surface & Baja fish to exit their holes; they received an an offer they couldn't refuse.
The cartridges were water proofed several ways, they could be coated with nail polish, spar varnish or my favorite was a automobile radiator sealant. After one submersion they were always discarded. ( I just toos the last of my 38 Wad cuuter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About 1958 the US government got into the act. Power heads were at that time were classified as firearms, and fell into the same category as sawed off shot guns, machine guns etc. Therefore they were illegal to posses or use. Finally the government decreed that they could be rendered legal IF they were solidly attached to a shaft longer than 18 inches. By that time the age of the power head was passing into history, so the law was essentially ineffective. I have no idea how the shops legally sell bang sticks in today's government controlled market place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most of my experience has been with the 38 Caliber Samson power head -- It is loud and can and has "rang my bell" on several instances when I was a wee bit too close or encased in a kelp canopy.
My tribe had several rules -Use only with a clear shot in relatively open water (difficult when you hunt in kelp) don't fire toward the surface - the sound will be bounced back, and don't fire into a hole, never ever fire into a hole when you are near.
We made our own 20 gauge bang sticks from common items and always used near the surface to send a message toa BSB - which was the last message they received .
Hope this helps and remember the difference between a Power head and a Bang Stick
SDM
Wookie
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Nice write up. I have never bought a powerhead in a shop. I've always been given them by someone who made them in a machine shop. One time use, of course.
Johnoly
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Even with smaller 223's the hole damage is enough that the fish house won't buy your quality fish (grouper, cobe, snaps). Seriously lionfish and bugs are paying more to us. , Several of my Comm friends now only hunt lionfish and nothing else,,because the profit vs cost beats everything else. Even the key's bug trappers say 50% of their haul year round is from LF. It's saving alot of comm boats down there from going under.
100days-a-year
Contributor
That's cause the. 223 has a similar charge to a .44.The lower power 357s and 38s don't have as much powder in them and do less damage.
I most exclusively use paralyzers as they are far faster to reload,PHs are far too slow for me.
I agree lionfish(in addition to being an environmental menace) are a great way to make money but I make more on either hogs,grouper or scamp in any given year.
I most exclusively use paralyzers as they are far faster to reload,PHs are far too slow for me.
I agree lionfish(in addition to being an environmental menace) are a great way to make money but I make more on either hogs,grouper or scamp in any given year.
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I) It is not a write up ! It was an article written long long ago documenting the history of the Power heads and the Bang stick., based on fact no I
2) I suspect you and many in your area have never seen or certainly used a Power Head ...It is a point impact head designed for long shots at big fish in a place called California It is a very complicated point and almost impossible to duplicate in any thing less than a fully equipped machine shop by experienced machinist
3) The Bang Stick which consist in its simplest form two parts can be produced from common items was made in garages through out Australia and California many years before spear fishing became popular in the Florida area.
4) In tribute to the great pioneer Australian "spero" Wally Gibbons, whom I met at the Fathers if Free Diving and Spearfishing in 2000. It is requested that you as influential member of the community began refereeing to the items as Bang Sticks --- They are distance cousins to the Power head
5) Remove your seld from the revisionist of I think, I was told, I heard, I believe brigade --who make verbose statements devoid of historical facts
Cheers from California - where it all began
SDM
Wookie
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Interesting how an item that falls out of use and loses exclusive use of its name. I think just the other day you were telling us someone copyrighted SCUBA and it meant something very specific, and now it applies to any self contained unit. Similarly, explaining that powerhead only refers to a specific piece of gear that hasn't been made in 50 years, while a nice story, doesn't really convey what the term refers to today. Today, if someone told me they shot an AJ with a powerhead, I wouldn't even consider that they did that 50 years ago with some gear that didn't work so good where scuba all started, I'd think they did it off the west coast of Florida and wanted some fish dip. And that, like me, they were a poor shot.
So the history of the powerhead is interesting, I personally had no idea that some Californian made it too complex to work well and easily as they do today. The evolution must have been something to see, but I'm a relative newcomer.
So the history of the powerhead is interesting, I personally had no idea that some Californian made it too complex to work well and easily as they do today. The evolution must have been something to see, but I'm a relative newcomer.
OP
Wow. Thank you @Sam Miller III for the article and history lesson.
Just goes to show that you can get some learning 'round here if you try.
Just goes to show that you can get some learning 'round here if you try.
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