Possible problem with Scubapro 1st stage Mk20.

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melle

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The Netherlands (Europe)
Hi People,

I went to a local dive shop today to inform about service on my reg.
I have a Scubapro Mk20 / S600 / R380.

They told me that I should "upgrade" the Mk20 with an Anti Freeze kit. Does anyone know if that is really necessary. I dive in cold water... but I was told when I bought it, that it was cold water proof.
SP delivers a kit... maybe that says enough. But I want a second (3rd, 4th... umpf-th) opinion :D

Another thing I just came across on the internet... There seem to be an occasional problem with cracks on the yoke of the Mk20. There is a (free of charge) kit to repair that.
Anyone any experience?

Regards,

Melle
 
I think that you were mislead if you were told that the MK20 is cold water proof as it is all open with no environmental seal. Of course this will depend on what you deem cold water. Most people say less than 50 deg.
I think the MK 20 problem may have had a recall on a certain part. I may be wrong. Not a SP guy myself.
 
How cold is cold? You should be okay down to around 7 centigrade with the Mk 20. Bring the reg to your local scubapro dealer and they will remedy the cracking issue for you, as you say, free of charge.
 
You might search to see if DAaquamaster has posted on this issue before; I'll bet he has, he's a real SP expert, and has extensive experience in cold water. If not, either send him a PM or wait to see if he posts on this thread.
 
Thanks for the kind words.

The full anti-freeze kit on the Mk 25 includes:

1. A composite piston with a mirror polished stem (standard on late production Mk 20's)
2. A plastic cover for the piston head with a ridge to prevent ice migration,
3. A soft rubber sleeve that covers the exposed portion of the piston stem and flexes to break off any accumulated ice when the piston sets back down on the seat (comes standard in all MK 20/25 annual service kits)
4. A teflon coated mainspring that resists ice accumulation (already standard on the Mk 20 T.I.S.)
5. Larger oval shaped holes in the swivel cap that allow more water exhcange in the ambient chamber (standard on late production Mk 20's)
6. Fins on the swivel cap to increase heat transfer (introduced after Mk 25 production was a year or two along so early MK 25's won't have them either)

The Mk 20 and Mk 25 transformation was an evolutionary process with several detail changes in each model. There was no clear defining line between them other than the addition of a adjustable seat retainer that allowed IP adjustment (and it's not worth the price of the upgrade.) So depending on when your Mk 20 was made, it may already have everything except the finned swivel cap.

The composite piston is worth having, especially if you have the mid production rounded brass tipped piston which do not lock up all that solid (they were never recalled as they never posed a safety issue, but the prescribed fix for a warrantied MK 20 with one that will not lock up is to replace it with a new one at no charge to the customer.) The piston will come with the cover and the set costs the dealer about $25

The swivel cap is worth upgrading if yours is a very early MK 20 with really small holes in the cap designed to used with a SPEC kit or a mid production Mk 20 with larger but still round holes. The large oval holes help a lot but the fins make no noticeable difference in my opinion so if you already have the large oval holes in yours, I'd pass on upgrading the cap. Dealer cost for a new cap is again about $25.

SP does not require any set price on parts so dealers can sell them at cost or make a profit on them. They do need to cover shipping costs and are entitled to make some profit, but should not be trying to gouge you too badly.

There also should be no extra labor charge for the upgrade if it is done as part of an annual service and other than the cap and piston, there are no other parts that are not already included in the annual service kit.

If you are doing cold water diving (below 50 degrees), be sure to have them lower the IP to 120-125 psi. It reduces the flow rate slightly and helps prevent freeze ups.

Scubapro sends free replacement parts to dealers to allow them to upgrade the yoke or DIN retainers on any Mk 20's that come in for annual service at no cost to the customer. The "new" universal retainer was introduced late in Mk 20 production, so it may or may not need to be replaced. SP policy is to replace them all however and then install a new plastic trim piece with 2 grooves to allow techs to easily tell them apart. (not that it is hard to tell the difference anyway, but SP has attorney's like everyone else.) The new trim piece looks amazingly like the one on my MK 17 and is no doubt the same part.

The only way cracks can develop even with the old style retainer is if it was badly over torqued to the point that the retainer flattened the sealing o-ring and bottomed out in the first stage body. This would place stress on the regulator body and could lead to cracks. If cracks are found the body needs to be replaced, but this should again be at no cost to the customer. The new retainer has a lip on it that ensures the retainer contacts the outside of the body and is stopped before it can totally flatten the o-ring and bottom out in the first stage body.
 
Thanks for the answer, especially DA Aquamaster!

I will print some of the stuff out, and give the shop good instructions on what I want.

I'am almost on the virge of buying a new 1st stage :(

Thanks

Melle
 
Hi,

Well, I didn't buy a new reg. I brought it to my LDS, he services it himself.
He good give me all the answers I was looking for, thanks to DA Aquamaster's reply (I printed it).

I got the works. He told I have a recent modelm so my first stage has already T.I.S. And all the fancy teflon stuff in it.
I will have the AF kit, and a mod on my S600... they seemed to have replaced the floating chamber of the S600 into sth. else.

So when it returns my 1st stage will be looking a little different, and will have a "2005 model" 2nd stage :D

It costs a lot, including the service, but since the thing means MyLive_Underwater... I think it is worth it. (EU 130 ~ USD 155).

Thanks again for the input,


Melle
 
Hey, DA Aquamaster,

When I recently had my SP regs serviced, the LDS who took them and then subsequently shipped them to a shop 3 states away for 6 weeks was a bit perplexed on the cracking issue when I asked if that had been corrected as requested on the service ticket I filled out, when they were finally ready for pickup the night before our flight out to our dive trip. These same LDS folks informed me that since my MK20 had been converted to DIN (at some time in its past before I acquired it in 2002) it wasn't an issue and no such conversion was needed - only ones with yoke fittings were at risk according to these folks. Mine is a really early MK20 with the really small holes (but I don't dive cold water). Could you elaborate a bit? Based on your post above, it would appear the info I got from the LDS on the cracking issue is about as accurate as them telling me my stuff would be ready in 2 weeks no problem when I dropped it off, and most likely it still needs checked by someone who knows the real stuff on the issue when I next get it serviced.
 
Just before the service directive came out, I bought a new in box MK 20 D400 manufactured with a yoke in 2001 and it had the new style yoke retainer, so it has been around since at least 2001. This particular Mk 20 was an early production Mk 25 in all respects except for the adjustable seat retainer. I sent the serial number to Scubapro along with the serial numbers of two of my DIN MK 20's at the same time and they still sent me new retainers for all three - which were in fact the same parts as the old retainers - so they are apparently either taking no chances or do not have clear records on what regs went out the door with which retainers.

Scubapro is pretty clear that all Mk 20's should have the yoke and DIN retainers upgraded when they come in for service and they send new parts for them regardless of serial number. Obviously on late production MK20's this is probably a waste of time since they had the newer "universal" retainers originally. But not replacing them all would leave it up to the techs to tell the difference - and it was techs who could not use a torque wrench properly who caused the problem in the first place, so the lack of confidence by SP's legal staff in techs being able to tell the retainers apart is understandable.

So...they might be right that your first stage does not need the upgrade if it was converted to the DIN configuration with the new style "universal" DIN retainer. But they are dead wrong on the directive not applying to any DIN equipped Mk 20's. In any case, even if it does have the correct retainer, it should be updated with the newer two groove trim piece so that it is readily identifyable as being upgraded.

Unfortunately it's hard to have faith in what they say about your retainer when they are wrong about the applicability of the directive regarding MK 20 DIN retainers in general.
 
Thanks DA - my MK20 was converted to DIN before I acquired it, and I acquired it in 2002, so it's suspect but not something I'll lose sleep over prior to the next time it's in for service. The LDS said absolutely nothing about the two groove trim piece when I discussed this with them. They only showed me the kits they had for yoke units and claimed any DIN units weren't at risk.

As more shops to the south and east of my new digs resume more routine business, I'll shop around for my next service provider.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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