possible motionsickness/never been in the ocean

[JPBECK]

Since I know you will try to slam me I will back up my claim:
"Statistically significant" is not the same as "scientifically important". Before interpreting the P value or confidence interval, you/one should think about the size of the treatment effect you are looking for. How large a difference would you consider to be scientifically important? How small a difference would you consider to be scientifically trivial? As a professional you need to use scientific judgment and common sense to answer these questions. Statistical calculations cannot help, as the answers depend on the context of the experiment and the sample size.

Accepting the null hypothesis when the P<.05 or P>.05 if fine as long as the sample size is large enough, or unless the the expireiment is designed as to skew the data... IMHO I think it is not reposonsible to site "evidence" the way you did, when we both know that the sample size was just too small in this case. It happens all the time in print media, no fault of yours, but if you are going to slam a new guy with such weak evidence, and not expect to get called on it----well we dont live in such a society my friend.

Respectfully yours
JPB

 

[JPBECK]

Sorry if anyone took offense to the freshman college thing. I was out of line.

 

[SueMermaid]

Oh, good lord. While I am all impressed that you know so much about statistical evaluation, this is a valid published study. Why are you arguing with a medical professional? Are you a doctor?

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

. Hey mod you were a little harsh on the new guy. I read the tongue and cheek comment at the end as just that tongue and cheek. He was just giving his 1/2 cent, as am I.

No prob there Beck...guy obviously knows more about the adverse effects and dangers of some of these OTC remedies than I do. As I said, it worked for me....and I was referring to the fact that I have it so bad, I get motion sick in my recliner (it has the rocker feature). I have a kind of weird sense of humor (27 years as an el school teacher)...didn't mean to be flippant to the point it would risk someone's safety.

Best remedy I ever got for sea-sickness - went to my Doctor, told him I was going diving offshore, had major problems with sea-sickness and asked him what he recommended...he put both hands on my shoulders...looked me right in the eye and said, "DON"T GO!" He was right - I stayed on the beach drank beer, watched the girls and felt great the whole week-end.

 

[JPBECK]

Just because it is published does not mean squat. How are you measuring vaild anyways. For your information I could not find this source that was cited either. My whole point was to show that is not vaild. My ed has nothing to do with this, but if you must know, I do have a PHD. I am sure the doc does not mind me questioning the data, as he did not publish it nor did he have anything to do with it. There were no personal attacks and my respect for the doc has not been tarnished. I dont know why you have a problem with an American practicing his 1st amendment rights, however.

Have a good day Miss or Mrs. Sue

 

[saf_25]

...should i buy some of it and try it well before i go so i knwo how it affects me? should i not try it? or should i just in case and in that case which kind? thanks

Back to the topic at hand, check out http://www.queasypops.com/queasy/
They sell a non-medicated lolipop for nausea that I swear by. Thy're marketed for all types of "queasiness" - not just motion sickness, but also pregnancy, chemotherapy side effects, etc... My dad is a pharmacist and he got these to try them in the store that he manages - he can't keep them on the shelves! Because they are non-medicated, they do not have side effects, they taste pretty good, and best of all - they work really well. We can't really figure out why, they have no medication and are just like sucking on a candy, but they are the only thing that I have found that helps to "cure" the sick feeling once it starts (all of the meds are somewhat good at helping to prevent it, but once you're feeling sick, they don't do any good, where this does). All I have to do is suck on one of these, and I feel better (actually, on a boat, usually I have to go outside as well - the fresh air usually helps a lot, but that by itself doesn't take away the nauseous feeling, it just keeps it from getting worse).

I do use bonine/dramamine less drowsy whenever I'm on a boat for that preventative effect, and if I'll be sleeping on a boat, I use the TransDerm Scop patch either instead of or in addition to the Dramamine, but none of those are really all that effective for me. The do help, but I've still gotten sick with the meds. Plus, the side effects of the patch make it almost worse than the feeling of being sea sick - I don't notice anything with the bonine, but I also don't notice that it helps me much.

But, since the meds do affect people differently, I would recommend that if you were going to being them with you, you should definitely try them out on land now to see how they affect you before you plan to be diving and need you full facilities - I do know people that can not take the meds because of their side effects. Plus, since you don't know what the feeling of sea-sickness is like, this way you'll know what the side effects of the meds are, so if you start to feel sick, you'll be able to rule out side effects as the cause. IF that makes any sense.

Sorry this is a long post, but to sum up, I'd suggest getting the queasy pops to have on you (ginger altoids work ok as well, but the pops are better), that way if you do get sick, you'll have somethign there to help you, but you won't have to take any yucky meds and have them in your system if you don't need them.

Good luck!

 

[Rob_Robscott]

humm good point-Jp, but I feel like I have just sat through a boring class. Hope you dont put your students to sleep with that mombo jumbo... However I once read a book, cant remeber the name of it, but it was about all these diffent statistics that showed you can prove anything, just by hiding a few facts.

Never seen those SAF-- what are they called? Who makes them- my wife feels like crap every time we go out, sometime it keeps me from diving! I will have her try anything to help --

Nice chat, thanks

 

[saf_25]

Never seen those SAF-- what are they called? Who makes them- my wife feels like crap every time we go out, sometime it keeps me from diving! I will have her try anything to help --

Nice chat, thanks

They're called Queasy Pops - hence the website, www.queasypops.com. Like I said, I don't know why they work, but I have a lot of antecdotal evidence that says they do....

 

[JPBECK]

You've taken quick notes to show that huh-- ok that's better than skewed numbers.

Thanks for the web address!

 

[scubapolly]

The statistics thing is right on, you can use statistics to show just about anything you want to. An n of 15 for a sample group is also pretty low when working in a human population. It is a great number when you are working with an interbred species of rats. Pharmacology is a pretty well respected journal (before I get beat down for my comment let me add that I was working on a PhD in neuroscience in a pharmacology department at a decent medical school up until 3 months ago,when after 4 years in the program I said F*$# this 80 hours a week in a lab, I'd rather be diving!), however a bunch of white coats throwing some guys in a hyper chamber means nothing to me as a diver. Haven't made it to the original journal article yet but there are so many factors to consider that aren't going to be the case in a chamber, ie. metabolism differences from not moving in the chamber to being mobile in the true diving environment. Temp differences and thermal loss that would be experienced in a dive situation, then there is the water....hello!
The water comment is a bit in jest, but I can give tons of examples of getting results 180 from each other becasue of an unexpected variable. One of the on-going research projects in my lab was crushed due to a chemical company changing their packaging from cardboard lid linners in their bottles to plastic ones. I know of tons of research projects distroyed several years ago when a major soap manufacturer changed their formula. When dealing with mental stuff, you wouldn't believe the varriables introduced: Noise and vibration can have major effects when dealing with mental tests. Not to mention something as simple as what the subjects had for breakfast, an unreported cocktail the night before, the last time they had sex, how much sleep they had the night before. We control all of this when we work with Rats, but you can't do that when you work with humans.

Anyway to answer the original question: I take 1/2 of a non-drowsy formula dramamine about 1 to 2 hours before I step foot on a boat. If it is just a day boat that is all that I do. On a live aboard, I have ginger stuff for my duration on the boat, and I take the other half of the draminine about 1 to 2 hours beforegetting off the boat (I actually have a worse problem with land sickness than sea sickness). I have done this on trips to the great lakes for a week of wreck diving when we hit 12 foot swells and were doing some decompression dives to 139 ft with no problems, as well as on some tamer dives.

Hope this helps.