Saturation
Medical Moderator
The froth happens when water enters the lungs, it appears red to pink, depending on the volume of mucus to blood.
Possible death on the oriskany Nov 14, 2009
- Thread starter bassandrew
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The froth happens when water enters the lungs, it appears red to pink, depending on the volume of mucus to blood.
ConchyJoe
Contributor
This is secondhand info, but my wife knows the wife of one of the people diving with Tim that day. It was said to her that they got down on the wreck, and at some point early in the dive, Ok's were given all around, and the next time (who know how long) someone looked at Tim, he was not moving, and unresponsive. She was also told it took around 20 minutes to get Tim to the surface.
That is all she told me..
NB;
Thanks for the clarification on the diluent being air. Just have to speculate if a 21/35 was used and a lower WOB and clearer head could've made for a different outcome???
Bill
Thanks for the clarification on the diluent being air. Just have to speculate if a 21/35 was used and a lower WOB and clearer head could've made for a different outcome???
Bill
most probably not. 180ft ~ 6atm. add the 1 atmospheric for a total of almost 7 ATM. 21% by 7 ~ 1.5 PPO. high exertion makes possible for a slight breakthrough and 1.5 PPO with a little CO2 could induce O2 convulsions. if that went unnoticed it might've well been the cause of the outcome. i would not go to that depth with anything more than 15% O2 as diluent, ...
on another note all those "swim studies" are a wash for most of the diving population. the subjects of those studies are highly trained individuals that exert themselves for a living, not the average "joe the office champion". when i was in highschool (former USSR), on cooper test anything under 2.8 km would get you a "scolding" and a barely passing grade (3 on a 5 point scale). it was the hardest part in getting a "straight As" record, mind you i was considered on the wimp side of the class, most of the guys were literally of the charts. if you would make me run it today I doubt i'll get to more than 2.4km.
If you want to err than do it on the side of caution, most of us go out there to relax not to make a living or set records (at least that's how I see it). Human body can take a lot of beating but a little "skip" underwater will most probably put your name in this rubric. It was not designed to run on high PPO and as much as others argue for 1.2 - 1.5 I say keep it as low as you can (reasonably close to the normal .21), rise it only to the strictly necessary in order to avoid "unreasonable" decompression schedules. There's a reason they teach you the "oxygen clock" in Nitrox 1, even if nobody says it loud and clear.
None of this post was meant to be rude, impolite, or to insult anybody - if you chose to take it as such don't throw it on me - english is not my best way of communication.
a called of dive would have just upset some people, nothing more. while things might have played this way for the victim even on dry land, in my mind there's no doubt that exposing himself to those conditions was a factor.
The autopsy will say something - it has to, but, how accurate will it be on a body that was brought to surface after being to some degree saturated at 7ATM is not certain - i would not put much value on it.
may your adventure be a lesson for others and not a mark on you (shame on those who see it like that).
RIP brother
on another note all those "swim studies" are a wash for most of the diving population. the subjects of those studies are highly trained individuals that exert themselves for a living, not the average "joe the office champion". when i was in highschool (former USSR), on cooper test anything under 2.8 km would get you a "scolding" and a barely passing grade (3 on a 5 point scale). it was the hardest part in getting a "straight As" record, mind you i was considered on the wimp side of the class, most of the guys were literally of the charts. if you would make me run it today I doubt i'll get to more than 2.4km.
If you want to err than do it on the side of caution, most of us go out there to relax not to make a living or set records (at least that's how I see it). Human body can take a lot of beating but a little "skip" underwater will most probably put your name in this rubric. It was not designed to run on high PPO and as much as others argue for 1.2 - 1.5 I say keep it as low as you can (reasonably close to the normal .21), rise it only to the strictly necessary in order to avoid "unreasonable" decompression schedules. There's a reason they teach you the "oxygen clock" in Nitrox 1, even if nobody says it loud and clear.
None of this post was meant to be rude, impolite, or to insult anybody - if you chose to take it as such don't throw it on me - english is not my best way of communication.
a called of dive would have just upset some people, nothing more. while things might have played this way for the victim even on dry land, in my mind there's no doubt that exposing himself to those conditions was a factor.
The autopsy will say something - it has to, but, how accurate will it be on a body that was brought to surface after being to some degree saturated at 7ATM is not certain - i would not put much value on it.
may your adventure be a lesson for others and not a mark on you (shame on those who see it like that).
RIP brother
I did some leisurely warm water dives with air dil in the 140-170fsw range recently and then did 21/35 the next day. Big difference with regard to the head being clearer.
Bill
Bill
dktexas54
Contributor
On a mooring, anything over a knot is undiveable....
Drifting and hot dropping into 2.2 is the worst I've done, and when we left the wreck and blew bags, we were in for quite a ride....
my question goes to the predive preparation. Dive should have been called in my opinion. should have gone back to Gulf Shores for a cold one or gone fishing the rest of the day. i know, you've spent lots of money and peer pressure. If dm's were being blown off the wreck, conditions in my opinion were not diveable. i have been in what i consider 2-3 knot current and struggled and began breathing heavy. can't imagine 4-5 knot current with all the tech gear on this person. You would need to be in top shape. Being middle age, and not knowing his health, this was a no call dive for anyone. just my opinion. very sorry for this persons family.
Drifting and hot dropping into 2.2 is the worst I've done, and when we left the wreck and blew bags, we were in for quite a ride....
my question goes to the predive preparation. Dive should have been called in my opinion. should have gone back to Gulf Shores for a cold one or gone fishing the rest of the day. i know, you've spent lots of money and peer pressure. If dm's were being blown off the wreck, conditions in my opinion were not diveable. i have been in what i consider 2-3 knot current and struggled and began breathing heavy. can't imagine 4-5 knot current with all the tech gear on this person. You would need to be in top shape. Being middle age, and not knowing his health, this was a no call dive for anyone. just my opinion. very sorry for this persons family.
diver 85
Contributor
Actually, that'd be FOURTH-hand info.
or
- not sure which.
splitting nanometers ------sorry to read about this diver......
EDIT:--just read NoBreather's account(report).......sometimes you have to call a dive when conditions are like they were.....ie come back another day or wait a while, currents in the Gulf can change in almost a heartbeat......
Pardon resurrecting this old thread . . .
Given how little we know of Immersion Pulmonary Edema, how many of incidents like these might go undiagnosed? Red / pink froth sure seems to come up a lot in accidents.
See http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html
How many of these divers get their Rx history checked? If a change of medication can cause side affects on land, what or how could those side affects be magnified under pressure?
Given how little we know of Immersion Pulmonary Edema, how many of incidents like these might go undiagnosed? Red / pink froth sure seems to come up a lot in accidents.
See http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html
How many of these divers get their Rx history checked? If a change of medication can cause side affects on land, what or how could those side affects be magnified under pressure?
Last edited:
Two slight corrections. One it's Immersion Pulmonary [-]Embolism[/-] Edema
Two, the start of the thread is here:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html
Remember THIS thread is an old thread that has been resurrected to ask this question. It is NOT a new incident.
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