Poseidon Cyklon 5000 vs Cyklon 300

[rgbmatt]

I wouldn't use a Cyklon 300 on anything over 3000 PSI. I'm sure the first stage can handle higher pressures, but the unbalanced design makes it breathe like crap when the tank pressure is too high. These regs were designed for low pressure tanks and are best at 2500 PSI and lower.

 

[bottomrunner]

I wouldn't use a Cyklon 300 on anything over 3000 PSI. I'm sure the first stage can handle higher pressures, but the unbalanced design makes it breathe like crap when the tank pressure is too high. These regs were designed for low pressure tanks and are best at 2500 PSI and lower.

as Louis stated the 300 is just that
to work on a 300 bar tank
many of the tech. divers like them for stage bottles because of the unbalanced first stage
it all depends on what you set your intermediate pressure at on a full tank
if you set the pressure at 140 psi. on a tank that holds 3000 or a tank that holds 4500 psi. it will perform the same
hope this helps!

 

[rgbmatt]

No, it doesn't work like that. In unbalanced diaphragm regs, the IP rises as tank pressure drops. To adjust them properly, they need to be tuned to breathe optimally on a near-empty tank. If you adjust it to breathe easier on a high pressure tank, it'll start to leak when the pressure gets low enough.

The Cyklon 2nd stage works best at an IP of around 170. At 3000 PSI, the IP on a Cyk300 is around 130 and the reg breathes quite stiff. It'll be even worse at higher pressures. Old Cyklons are nice little regs, but they just don't cut it on high pressure tanks compared with balanced 1st stages.

 

[skyjack]

Thank you for the input gentleman.

 

[Luis H]

No, it doesn't work like that. In unbalanced diaphragm regs, the IP rises as tank pressure drops. To adjust them properly, they need to be tuned to breathe optimally on a near-empty tank. If you adjust it to breathe easier on a high pressure tank, it'll start to leak when the pressure gets low enough.

The Cyklon 2nd stage works best at an IP of around 170. At 3000 PSI, the IP on a Cyk300 is around 130 and the reg breathes quite stiff. It'll be even worse at higher pressures. Old Cyklons are nice little regs, but they just don't cut it on high pressure tanks compared with balanced 1st stages.

You are basically correct, but I don’t believe that the IP pressure swing is that large from a full 3000 psi tank to an empty 500 psi (or even 300 psi) tank. Going from IP of 130 (@ 3000 psi) to 170 psi (@ 300 psi) is a large swing.

My repair manual recommends adjusting them using 300 psi tank pressure (my Poseidon repair manuals are 30 years old).

It has been a wile since I overhaul one of my first stages. I like the second stages but I have attached them to Conshelf balanced first stages. They are easier to deal with.


300 bar = 4351 psi

My Poseidon tanks are 200 bar (2900 psi). There original stamp is from the early 60’s, but in the 70’s Poseidon had 300 bar tanks that they used with the Cyklon 300. I can’t comment on how well it perform with 4350 psi since I personally never had access to that kind of tanks or pressure.

 

[donooo]

Don't you guy's slow down. I picked up a 5000 last week on e-bay, then tripped over two 300's for $90 at a yard sale. I now have 2x5000 first's, 2x300 firsts, 3x5000 2nd's and 2x 300 2nd's (metal body) that I am trying to figure out. I'am learing a lot from you guy's. I have that dreaded disease, Poseidon.

tnx don O

 

[bottomrunner]

You are basically correct, but I don’t believe that the IP pressure swing is that large from a full 3000 psi tank to an empty 500 psi (or even 300 psi) tank. Going from IP of 130 (@ 3000 psi) to 170 psi (@ 300 psi) is a large swing.

My repair manual recommends adjusting them using 300 psi tank pressure (my Poseidon repair manuals are 30 years old).

It has been a wile since I overhaul one of my first stages. I like the second stages but I have attached them to Conshelf balanced first stages. They are easier to deal with.


300 bar = 4351 psi

My Poseidon tanks are 200 bar (2900 psi). There original stamp is from the early 60’s, but in the 70’s Poseidon had 300 bar tanks that they used with the Cyklon 300. I can’t comment on how well it perform with 4350 psi since I personally never had access to that kind of tanks or pressure.

i stand corrected Matt

i forgot to add that the intermediate pressure on any cyklon has to be set at 290 psi. to handle the increase in intermediate pressure.
for the cyklon 300 and the oceanair
at 290 psi the intermediate pressure should be set at 167 to 181 psi.
at 3000 psi. the intermediate pressure should be set at 130 to 145 psi.
at 4350 psi. the intermediate pressure should be set at 101 to 116 psi.
for the cykon 5000
at 290 psi. the intermediate pressure is set between 160 to 174 psi.
at 3000 psi. between 145 to 160 psi.
at 4350 psi. between 130 to 145 psi.

the mannor in which the second stage preforms is adjusted throught the low pressure valve and the ejector sleeve
if you tighten the low pressure valve to handle the higher intermediate pressure, the only thing that changes is the cracking resistance
sorry for not being more clear the first time

 

[rgbmatt]

You are basically correct, but I don’t believe that the IP pressure swing is that large from a full 3000 psi tank to an empty 500 psi (or even 300 psi) tank. Going from IP of 130 (@ 3000 psi) to 170 psi (@ 300 psi) is a large swing.

My repair manual recommends adjusting them using 300 psi tank pressure (my Poseidon repair manuals are 30 years old).

It is a much larger IP swing than most regs - I was surprised the first time I saw it. It can actually be handy sometimes, because it's really easy to tell how full your tank is by the way your reg is performing. For all I know this may have been intentional, since pressure gauges weren't common back then.

at 4350 psi. the intermediate pressure should be set at 101 to 116 psi.

Eww... That's probably still diveable but the first 1/3 of the dive would be a whole lot of work.

Didn't the newer version of the Cyklon 300 (the one with UNF threded ports) come with a 300bar din connector?

 

[Luis H]

i stand corrected Matt

i forgot to add that the intermediate pressure on any cyklon has to be set at 290 psi. to handle the increase in intermediate pressure.
for the cyklon 300 and the oceanair
at 290 psi the intermediate pressure should be set at 167 to 181 psi.
at 3000 psi. the intermediate pressure should be set at 130 to 145 psi.
at 4350 psi. the intermediate pressure should be set at 101 to 116 psi.
for the cykon 5000
at 290 psi. the intermediate pressure is set between 160 to 174 psi.
at 3000 psi. between 145 to 160 psi.
at 4350 psi. between 130 to 145 psi.

the mannor in which the second stage preforms is adjusted throught the low pressure valve and the ejector sleeve
if you tighten the low pressure valve to handle the higher intermediate pressure, the only thing that changes is the cracking resistance
sorry for not being more clear the first time

I didn’t think the IP change was that much, but I can’t argue with actual data. I know I checked the IP versus tank pressure in the past, but it was close to 30 years ago.

Were did that data comes from? Is it one of the new manuals that are available on line?

As I mentioned I decided to use Conshelf 1st stages with my Poseidon Cyklon second stages. They are balanced and the parts are cheaper.

I have no experience with the Cyklon 5000, but looking at the data it doesn’t look like it is very well balanced. The balancing chamber and the flow through orifice must not be the same size.

Didn't the newer version of the Cyklon 300 (the one with UNF threded ports) come with a 300bar din connector?

I have been meaning to ask, when did we get different DIN fittings? I only recall one length of DIN and it was always good to 300 bar.
Heck this all thing about yokes only good to 3000 psi is interesting (but not necessarily a joke) to me. I have some heavy yokes that are stamped 4000 psi and I know the Cousteau team used yokes in there 5000 psi tanks.


Here are some pictures of some of my vintage Poseidon gear:
http://vintagedoublehose.com/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=174

If you notice the old Draeger two tank manifold, it has DIN fittings with phenolic gaskets, no O-rings.
Also notice the Cyklon first stage with out any HP ports and only one LP port for the second stage. Internally it was the same as the Cyklon 300.

 

[Bob3]

I just excavated a couple of the #2965 kits that upgrade the 2305 1st stage to 300 bar; the kit is no longer a current item but can be assembled from numbers 3096, 2656, 1377, 1007, 2423, 1233, and 2424. I haven't done a cross check to see which of those items are current or not.
The 300s were particularly sneaky because you could suck a vacuum on a tank before noticing any breathing resistance. SPGs became a necessity when using a Cyklon.