Poseidon Cyklon 5000 Metal

[tbone1004]

Realistically, I would like to hear the decrease in safety factor achieved by setting the static intermediate pressure to that of 30fsw over base 135-140.

Turn it up..

History is really all it is.
The original first stages for this reg was unbalanced. The IP swing between tank pressure was pretty large. At 300psi the reg was up around 165psi and at 4300psi was down to about 125 *remember, in Europe, so 300bar tanks are a thing*. You need to design the regulator to at least be able to breathe at the extreme ranges of the first stages so it can't freeflow at 165, and it still has to breathe at 125.
The second stage is also an unbalanced, downstream second stage design. With this, the spring pressure needed to be strong enough to prevent freeflow at 165, and the diaphragm had to be large enough to overcome that spring pressure at 125psi because of the first stage restrictions of the time.

Downstream second stages breathe easier as the IP goes up until the point that the IP overcomes the spring pressure. Spring pressure is designed for 165psi because of the original first stage design at high tank pressure, so the easiest breathing will occur at the higher IP. You can run Cyklons at 135 on "normal" first stages, but they are a bit stiff to breathe. It won't fail to provide gas, it just won't breathe almost effortlessly like it does at 165.

@Caveeagle I know that straight, angle, and swivel adapters exist from Omni, they're just $$$. Need 5 of them right now and it's painful to think about. Rob made it sound like they were available from Poseidon or that maybe the plastic body would accept the Jetstream/Xstream adapter

 

[Caveeagle]

@Caveeagle I know that straight, angle, and swivel adapters exist from Omni, they're just $$$. Need 5 of them right now and it's painful to think about. Rob made it sound like they were available from Poseidon or that maybe the plastic body would accept the Jetstream/Xstream adapter

Yes these adapters are very pricey. Be sure to let me know if you ever line up a volume deal. I could use two or three myself.

Did you see the sets of cyklons for sale by McLeod on cdf? I almost bought them just for the Omni adapters.

 

[tbone1004]

@Caveeagle yeah I saw them, but I have 5x metal cyklons already on top of 12x jestreams, so have no real justification for them

 

[211ratsbud]

History is really all it is.
The original first stages for this reg was unbalanced. The IP swing between tank pressure was pretty large. At 300psi the reg was up around 165psi and at 4300psi was down to about 125 *remember, in Europe, so 300bar tanks are a thing*. You need to design the regulator to at least be able to breathe at the extreme ranges of the first stages so it can't freeflow at 165, and it still has to breathe at 125.
The second stage is also an unbalanced, downstream second stage design. With this, the spring pressure needed to be strong enough to prevent freeflow at 165, and the diaphragm had to be large enough to overcome that spring pressure at 125psi because of the first stage restrictions of the time.

Downstream second stages breathe easier as the IP goes up until the point that the IP overcomes the spring pressure. Spring pressure is designed for 165psi because of the original first stage design at high tank pressure, so the easiest breathing will occur at the higher IP. You can run Cyklons at 135 on "normal" first stages, but they are a bit stiff to breathe. It won't fail to provide gas, it just won't breathe almost effortlessly like it does at 165.

@Caveeagle I know that straight, angle, and swivel adapters exist from Omni, they're just $$$. Need 5 of them right now and it's painful to think about. Rob made it sound like they were available from Poseidon or that maybe the plastic body would accept the Jetstream/Xstream adapter

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with a quality non Poseidon first stage being used with the Poseidon second stage? I can't tell lol. Which was only a post to an earlier comment about piecing the kit. And not something I'm recommending.

 

[Caveeagle]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with a quality non Poseidon first stage being used with the Poseidon second stage? I can't tell lol. Which was only a post to an earlier comment about piecing the kit. And not something I'm recommending.

I believe a common setup for sump divers is an Apeks 1st stage mated to a Cyklon 2nd stage. I assume the conversion gains the benefit of an enviro sealed 1st stage and a 2nd that can handle being dragged through jagged rocks and still preform when needed.

 

[rsingler]

poseidon makes a hose adapter for the plastic cyklons?!?

No, Poseidon doesn't make one. So sad.
Here's are pieces.

And similar arrangement for XStream or Jetstream

 

[rsingler]

T-bone was right.
The Cyklon gets REALLY stiff if tuned for 165 but breathes from unbalanced reg at 125 psi IP.
And if you tune it on a Poseidon, an Apeks or other balanced 1st for 135 psi, it doesn't breathe as smoothly as newer plastic component 2nds.
The metal to metal friction takes its toll at lower IPs.
I think a Scubapro C350 would be a better choice for unbalanced downstream 2nd and low IP (e.g., cold water diving).

 

[tbone1004]

@rsingler

if you are going to that length, why not just buy the Omni parts that include the swivel or elbow and is integrated into the adapter

Products


@DanaHunt I do not recommend using the Cyklon on a first stage that is not capable of 165psi IP.

IF you really want to use it with an Apeks first stage. Then you really should replace the spring with the one from Tecme on the site below. This will allow you to adjust the IP down to about 175psi which is right below the Poseidon recommended max of 180psi. As Rob said above, it is possible to run these at lower IP's but the work of breathing isn't great, so unless you absolutely need the hose routing of something like the DST from Apeks, then stick with the Poseidon first stages.

Tec Equipment für Nitrox, Rebreather Höhlen Tauchen

 

[211ratsbud]

@rsingler

if you are going to that length, why not just buy the Omni parts that include the swivel or elbow and is integrated into the adapter

Products


@DanaHunt I do not recommend using the Cyklon on a first stage that is not capable of 165psi IP.

IF you really want to use it with an Apeks first stage. Then you really should replace the spring with the one from Tecme on the site below. This will allow you to adjust the IP down to about 175psi which is right below the Poseidon recommended max of 180psi. As Rob said above, it is possible to run these at lower IP's but the work of breathing isn't great, so unless you absolutely need the hose routing of something like the DST from Apeks, then stick with the Poseidon first stages.

Tec Equipment für Nitrox, Rebreather Höhlen Tauchen

Gotcha. I don't disagree with that at all. For conversation's sake I was including adjusting a non Poseidon first stage up.

I am very interested in full Poseidon kits and i will find my way into one sooner or later. I've serviced and tested one and was quite pleased with its feel. It was a jetstream.

 

[rsingler]

I just don't like the Omni-swivel. It's a failure point dependent solely on one hex screw and an or ring seal that is not well captured.
I'll take a straight adapter and the plain 110° connector, since I'm essentially using the 5' hose to give me the lateral movement I want.