Pony for high O2 EAN on 15' safety-stop.

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Rutger

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Hi all,

I recently attended a seminar on DCS facilitated by the hyperbaric medicine department of my local general hospital. The director of that program espoused the value of doing your 5 min safety stop @ 15' with up to 70% O2 as an additional means of purging nitrogen and reducing DCS likelihood.

Does anyone do this? If so, what sort of set-up do you run?

Thanks!
 
If you are diving within NDL a safety stop is a good idea but not the same as deco obligation. I would recommend setting your computer (if you are able) to be more conservative if your worried. Yes O2, or Nitrox will help you off-gas quicker. Without proper training using other mixes of gas is flat out deadly. Also, you won't find a dive shop to give you a mix of 70% unless you are adv. nitrox certified (or so I hope)
 
Techically the idea sounds good - purging N2 by using a higher PO2, tech divers routinely use a higher oxygen EANx (32%, 50% and even pure oxygen) in an effort to have a cleaner decompression. However, a recreational diver carrying such a pony (filled with EANx70) would have to realize that the gas in the pony would not be available below the maximum operating depth (or MOD) for the O2 content - in this case, approximately 42' (assuming a max PO2 of 1.6 and deco specific activity level).

In most cases, people opt for a pony as a way to solve the need for a redundant air supply - having it unavailable for depths deeper than 42' may not be the best use of the extra bottle (assuming its filled with EANx70). Instead, I'd probably decide to use a 32% bottle (110' MOD), or even a 50% (70' MOD) and keep the dive shallow enough not to have to worry about the MOD of the back-up/safety stop gas I'm carrying - for recreational dives, that is.

At the very least, using EANx for a cleaner safety stop would require the user to be Nitrox trained... obviously! However, 70% is beyond recreational levels of Nitrox (rec is only up to 40%).

Hope that helps.

Lee

PS: Good call on the training, Chad.
 
Hi all,

I recently attended a seminar on DCS facilitated by the hyperbaric medicine department of my local general hospital. The director of that program espoused the value of doing your 5 min safety stop @ 15' with up to 70% O2 as an additional means of purging nitrogen and reducing DCS likelihood.

Does anyone do this? If so, what sort of set-up do you run?

I am not trained in the black arts of deco theory and science. But the little research I have done suggests that ad hoc remedies like this may be more dangerous than helpful. There are a lot of factors behind the choice of a deco gas and deco plan, and it is difficult to evaluate a single piece of advice out of context.

As others have noted, 70% EAN has a certain Maximum Operating Depth. Imagine a scenario where you are suffering from Narcosis and suffer an OOG emergency. You might breathe from the deco bottle and that might be bad. Thus, many agencies that train in the use of deco gasses also train in the use of redundant bottom gas supplies such as double tanks.

Also, some investigation into decompression models might be interesting before adopting this suggestion. At one time 80% was a popular deco gas. Why? This was driven by the most popular mathematical model of decompression at the time. When adjustments were made to the model, many divers switched to using 100% at a shallower depth. Likewise, many divers use 50% at a deeper depth. Why? Would that make sense for recreational dives or is it strictly for technical dives?

A final question I would ask is why assume that the deco depth is fixed at a safety stop. Without spending a penny on additional equipment, training, or fills you could adopt a more conservative deco strategy. If you look around, you can discover that some divers adopt various forms of deep stops, be they a minute or so at a deep depth, pyle stops, or a ladder of one minute stops from half of maximum depth.

Do any of these lessen DCS? If so, do they do so more or less than breathing 70% at 15'? I couldn't say, but I would suggest that looking into these things is a good idea before adopting a deco gas. I guess this is a long winded way of saying that we should be suspicious of taking the dive we are already doing and adding a deco bottle. Instead, we should put all aspects of our dive on the table and see what adjustment gives us the greatest safety.

(Speaking anecdotally, I have had the greatest perceived reduction in sub-clinical DCS symptoms after deep recreational dives from two things. First, being really, really disciplined about ascending extremely slowly from my last stop to the surface. Second, adopting one minute ascents. But remember, "The plural of anecdote is not data.")
 
You're going to get a fair amount of info on this. Some will be positive some will be negative.

Why only 70%O2?

MOD for 100%O2 is 20fsw with a PP of 1.6.

If you take Advanced Nitrox, this is all the good stuff you will learn.

Basically you'll hear from a lot more experienced folks, that is just isn't worth the effort. The tanks have to be O2 cleaned, the regs have to be O2 cleaned, so on so forth.

Empirically it makes a lot of sense, but in practicality, at least currently, it doesn't.
 
Thanks guys, thats why I posted, was to get some alternative thoughts on the matter, that I may not have already considered.

For the record, I am NITROX certified to 40% (PADI), so I am typically on EAN32 or EAN36 anyways. A follow-up would have been, "Where do I even get anything greater than 40% O2 anyways".

I'll look more into deep-stop diving. I know my Vytec has an option to use them, and my research has proved to be mixed on whether they help purge or result in more uptake.

I'll use the search function for more on "on-minute-ascents"... :D
 
An easy way to understand deep stops is they are allowing the science to catch up.

I know a few divers, including myself, who do this as a matter of course on dives 90' and deeper.

Basically I halve the depth of my max depth of that dive, stop at that depth and chill for a minute. I then halve that depth again, stop and chill for a minute.

Using 90'. I'll stop around 45' for one minute. Then around 25' for a minute. Then the 15' SS.
 
Simply put IMHO it would be a waste of time and kind of a hassle. If your going to carry a pony and are on a single tank, fill it with air and use it as a bailout. Better yet get yourself into dbls and loose the pony, or take a set of bands with you if you travel.

There are way too many things that can go wrong, once you start mixing gases and diving with a buddy. A safety stop is just an added margin of saftey as you know. As long as you stick to the tables you shouldn't have an issue, and tables are also somewhat conserverative

We use different gases to speed up our deco and get us out of the water. The problem that you run into using higher PPO2's is exposure time. Someone said something about 80% vs 100%, much of that has to do with the shop being able boost the O2 to 3000psi and if the diver wants to be @ 1.6 on his 20' hang
 
IMHO, if you are diving deep enough to really worry about decompression you need to carry a pony bottle for emergency bail out. If you want to carry an ADDITIONAL (i.e. 3rd) bottle (which I do on some planned deco dives) then I usually bring a bottle of 100% oxygen.

I back mount my air bail out bottle, but the bottle of oxygen is just too dangerous for me to do that. I wear it as a stage bottle (clipped off on my shoulder and hip ring) and the valve is turned off and the reg is retained by rubber bungi straps on the tank. With this configuration it is very unlikely that I would accidentally breath it a depth.

If you don't want to take 3 bottles, then just bring a pony and fill it with air.

I think that breathing oxygen or a rich mix will provide some significant deco benefit, but you need to balance the need for redundancy at depth along with the hassle of diving three bottles.
 
I'll use the search function for more on "on-minute-ascents"... :D

Look around for Ratio Deco. There's various explanations of it online that you can read for free. If you want a fuller explanation, you can take technical dive training from either of two agencies: GUE or UTD. UTD actually offers an online Ratio Deco class, although obviously an online class explaining how to plan the dive is not the same thing as teaching someone how to dive the plan.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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