Pony Bottle Valve on of off

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7ftDiver

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Long Island NY (Oceanside)
I am fairly new to diving (about 30 or so dives) and have been using a pony bottle as added piece of mind. I live in NY and dive here so its not a bad idea. I have been mounting the bottle on my tank but hate the way it feels. I have searched the forums and decided to sling the bottle. Its an AL40 (im 7ft tall, i use a little gas). My question is, i had thought/assumed that the proper way to dive with a bottle was to turn the valve on and leave it so it was ready in the case you needed it. According to numerous posts i have read, lots of people seem to want to have access to the valve to turn it on and off. Should the valve be on or off while im diving? i have a button spg so i could tell if i was loosing gas, or am i totally wrong here. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
 
Dive with it on, only turn it off if you have a leak issue. If you need to turn it off, it's still probably good to at least initially pressurize the hose, then turn the valve off, so there's a charge in it (avoid water flowing back towards the first stage).
I'm just a newbie, but that's what I've heard, it makes sense, that's what I do.
 
7ftDiver:
Should the valve be on or off while im diving? i have a button spg so i could tell if i was loosing gas, or am i totally wrong here. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

I sling a 40 or 2, depending on the situation. I am sure there is a DIR way someone will give you, however, if the bottle is slung you have access to the valve. My buddy charges his lines (open the valve) and then shuts off the valve. This way, if his reg free-flows, he is not losing gas (which he has planned to use on ascent). I leave mine on the whole time. If my reg free-flows I can do a multitude of things to stop the free flow, including reaching down and cranking the valve off. Of course, I carry the tank with me when I have it open. If I plan to leave it somewhere (for instance on a penetration dive) leaving the stage outside the wreck, I will charge the line and kill the valve. That way, if the reg free flows during my absence, I will only lose the gas that was in the line.

So...what is the DIR way?
 
I sling mine and keep it off but pressured. If you have a gage you may leave it on its just a preference. But my valve is right in front of me and pretty easy to turn on.
 
'Charge' the bottle by turning it on then off, and recharge as necessary. Don't leave it on.
 
I leave mine on but I usually use mine to inflate my drysuit as well. If it is slung in front you should see if it leaks
 
jonnythan:
'Charge' the bottle by turning it on then off, and recharge as necessary. Don't leave it on.
IMHO this is really the only safe way to go if the primary purpose of your sling tank is redundant gas.

Anyone who does otherwise makes several major assumptions:

First, they assume that they'll have a free left hand to turn off the valve should a free-flow occur. This might not always be the case. Their hands might be full of a toxing diver, an obstruction, an entrapment, an anchor line AND another diver, a reel, a fixed line in a cave, or god knows what.

Second, they assume that nothing else is going south simultaneously. I watched a guy get enmeshed in a gill net one time. Not only were his regs yanked from his mouth and bottle, but both began freeflowing as the net yanked him down. Uh, at the moment he didn't have a hand free to tend to any of his valves...see item one.

Third, they assume that they're the only one with sudden issues. Don't forget that your immediate source of frustration and sudden chaos might be another diver who is in far worse shape than you are.

Fourth, they assume they'll be able to see the valve. Ever been in zero vis and heard bubbles? Quick, which reg are the bubbles coming from?

You plan to carry a sling bottle because you're doing something where you've calculated you might need that much gas to respond to a situation. Not that much gas minus whatever free-flowed out while you were too busy doing something else.

Assuming you have issues, it only takes a minute to turn the valve on. But once that gas is gone, you better switch to plan B.

Charge your hoses, then turn the valve off. Check it periodically throughout the dive. It may lose pressure. No worries, charge it again and then turn it off again.

If you dive with your sling tank valves open, the time may come when you're losing gas and unable to do much about it except wish you'd turned the darn thing off.

FWIW. YMMV.
 
No spare hand to turn things off is why you would have it on -- it's ready to go, you don't have to have a free hand to crank it open. Simultaneous freeflow on primary and pony, and enmeshed in a net, is starting to get to the "really bad day" zone. For an off pony to be a plus you would have to postulate the freeflow, no hands free, but that one hand became free when the pony was needed.
With my pony octo immediately in front of me, it's not difficult to know if that reg starts to freeflow, as compared to my primary.
I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just to point out that there are pluses and minuses either way, and once multiple-failure scenarios are postulated it is readily just as advantageous to start with the valve open as to have the valve closed. In the outside, normal diving with a buddy, the pony is purely a spare/backup. If solo, any air failure is time to call it a day.
(I have indeed used the valve off, on vacation, when I had a minor pony reg leak that couldn't be fixed on site. It worked absolutely fine, with the pony inverted so it was a pretty easy reach to the valve, just that I prefer to run with it on. For random diving it would bite, however, if another diver went OOA and instead of grabbing my primary went for that bright yellow pony octo, sucked on a dead hose. YMMV -- just make sure to practice with whatever configuration you choose, including drills with your buddy.)
 
Actually what I think Doc Intrepid is saying is, that as long as there´s only one failiure ie you need the air in the pony (for whatever reason), all you have to do is turn on the valve. I´d think that one or perhaps two turns of the valve would be enough to supply you with the air you need until you´ve turned it all the way open...

If there are multiple failiures, chances are that you´ll have enough backgas (even with freeflow) to solve whatever problems you´re having before you need to go for the pony...if doubles that might mean just closing the isolator, if stuck cutting yourself free etc...

As you said markfm multiple failiures are rare so it makes sense to go for the solution that works best with single failiure, ie valve closed...because the risk of undetected loss of air would be greater than the risk of having to use the pony (even going by your own experience of never having had to use the pony)...

I´m not trying to argue the point either really (I only use stages and the considerations are somewhat different for my applications) but I think a sound discussion of pro´s and cons is beneficial to everyone involved...
 
I would say leave it on for a few reasons; it is ready to use instantly, the LP hose is pressurized so it does not fill with water, and the first stage orings usually (almost always) fail during initial charge...which I would rather have happen on the boat and not when I needed the gas.

Scott
 

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