Pony 1st stage valve combo

[Schwob]

What should one think about these pony valve 1st stage regulator combos, e.g. like these:
Drysuit / Deco Bottle First Stages
Or like this on the low end:
Balance Piston Din First Stage

Not sure there is even a manufacturer mentioned.
Is that a potentially (for a travelling pony) a worth while weight and size savings --- or is it known to be a you get what you pay for and don't dare using it in cold water thing?
Does anyone use them?
Know if service kits could be found?
Any other thoughts / wisdom / insight ?

 

[Kharon]

Some of the drysuit/deco look like the H2Odyssey RG2V. I have 2 and think they are great. Used them in 42°F water and as deep as 131 feet. No problems. I get service kits and do my own maintenence though the kits are not commonly available. For the most part they only need disassembly and cleaning. You aren't breating them much. Just enough for practice and to insure they are on and working before splashing. You can get yoke or station fill adapters so you can fill at a dive shop or from an 80cf tank.

 

[tbone1004]

those regulators are all made by WMD which is one of the large OEM's in Taiwan. The "big" regulator mfg in the US they currently produce for is Dive Rite. ODS is the other who produces for HOG, Deep6, and a few others. To @Kharon 's point, that is the same as the H2Odysesy RG2V.

The integrated ones are FS-813/814/820 series regulators from them, and the standalone is FS-810 series. They are all perfectly suitable regulators.

I don't believe in travelling pony bottles personally, but if you are travelling with one anyway, then I would have no problem using one of the integrated ones. That said, you still have to carry the fill adapter, and the station fill adapter is likely going to negate any weight savings.

Several people I know use the integrated ones for argon and CCR bottles. For that use, they will all be fine. If you are planning on breathing on it in cold water, I'd get the RG3V which is environmentally sealed.
I use the standalone first stage on my deco bottles. They're perfectly fine.

Service kits available from Piranha directly

I don't believe in pony bottles, especially flying with them, but the regulators are perfectly fine. Some dive shops may balk at it, but if you show up with a fill adapter, you shouldn't have any issues. You can also get fill adapters for yoke and DIN so you can transfill out of your other bottles.

 

[Schwob]

@Kharon & @tbone1004
THANKS.

Wow, great detailde reply tbone... anticipating quiet a few turns I have not yet even considered. Good point that with the fill adapter adding to weight and bulk as well as the RG3V equivalent for cold water.
Maybe even not believing into a travelling pony is a good point. I am still a bit clueless about the scuba infrastructure and pricing structures and if a pony is easily and cheaply rented or where not and otherwise maybe "free" (Bonaire), why not just sling an AL80 instead...
I think the BlackBeard guys will fill a pony, but do not offer one for rent. Not sure if and when I end up spending time on that LOB, but I could afford it....
I'll figure it all out eventually...
And based on that fill adapter thought use a regulator and a valve I have for now... until I know (by August, hopefully) if there will be more divers and with that regulator needs in the family....
Other thought is to just stay with the type we have so far ... to keep it simple. Trouble with that is they are not that low cost (Apeks)...
Other thought is to make one and only one change (e.g. to hog or to deep6, someone who supports self service rather than trying to get in the way of it) and then stick with that.
What you do tbone (finding cheap old ones and recondition) appeals too, but I am not sure I am ready for that just yet... and finding decent well priced used stuff w/o spending way to much time on the finding seems not to be my "niche" ...

I'll find out this winter how I'll do in trying to service my Apeks regs for the first time and go from there in that regard...

 

[tbone1004]

@Schwaeble so why the pony bottle in the first place is my question for you? Slinging an AL80 without a bp/w is thoroughly obnoxious, but slinging one is something we do regularly. Put a loop bungee on the left side of the plate and it all but disappears on your body.

regarding the regs, that is something you have to figure out. If it were me, depending on how in bed with Apeks you are, I'd sell them and switch over when they're due for service. You can only figure out if there is a justified ROI on doing that

 

[Schwob]

so why the pony bottle in the first place is my question for you?

I guess it would be best summarized by:
"... thinking ..."

On slinging an AL80 - I don't think that bothers me, but I have to try it on my BCD. Never did so far.
Did try it when playing with (borrowed) BP&W for a couple of weekends last year. I am just thinking if I bring all that gas just for a pony I might as well make it part of the gas plan (as it would be if side-mounting (never tried yet) or using doubles)... - So anyway, I will try slinging an AL80 to my BCD, then I know...

But if I plan on breathing out of only one tank for the dive (just so I only have to pay to fill one tank) and want to bring a pure pony, an 80 is a bunch to lug around on land. In the water I don't think it matters that much.

So, say in August my son and I go on a (recreational) dive with say Rainbow reef on Key Largo for 3 mornings in a row (first time there, the girls take their OW class, we might as well dive..) and I want to dive with a pony. And I want to keep my options open for the remaining days (in terms of booking stuff) because I have no idea how the girls will do in class - one will pass, no question, we will see how my wife takes to it...

My options are:
- bring an AL19, have it filled, use that as my pony for the week, cost is that of the fill (I may need a cheater transfer fill first to get around potential issues with that first fill after re-assembly and questions about zero pressure...) Sure not going to pay for a vis for having had the valve off for a flight
- rent an AL 40 or an AL80 for the purpose for each dive or for the first three days and see for afterwards. So if I can rent an AL40, why should I rent an AL80 instead (I can bring slings and bolt snaps for either)?
If I can't rent an AL40, it could be an AL80 I have to find out ikf they do that if they want me to have that extra tank on the boat and what they charge. But it sure could be an AL80 then.
- dive with two 80s both as part of the dive plan and find out what that will do on cost (having to bring 4 on the boat)... and find out what "the outfit" says to me wanting to do that.... I might like the "no air hog worry" scenario...

For some reasons I was leaning towards the first one. Why exactly I can't pinpoint. Being independent from whatever outfit we may use and their "rules" and if getting and bringing an extra 80 is OK and affordable and maybe a general hesitation about getting on the phone and asking the dumb questions may have played into it, but that's maybe not a real reason even...

So, in the end, maybe I don't have a good reason... As I said:

"... thinking..."

 

[tbone1004]

if you are going to risk transfilling, you're going to have the weight of the whip as well, so keep that in mind.

the question I have though is why a pony in the first place? If you are confident in your gas planning and confident in your buddy skills, why use one in the first place?

 

[Schwob]

if you are going to risk transfilling, you're going to have the weight of the whip as well, so keep that in mind.

the question I have though is why a pony in the first place? If you are confident in your gas planning and confident in your buddy skills, why use one in the first place?

My intent is to dive self reliant.
With buddy or solo makes no difference with that intent.
More confidence may come with more diving and improving skills in the process. The whole committing to muscle memory thing happens for me when I manage to get a bunch of dives in in relative short order. One dive day one months and then one dive day 4 months later or so just helps me not to get completely rusty and to remember ... not so much learning new.
I just have a bit over 100 & some dives. Did the first 100 & some and solo cert in my first year. And this year, live got in the way and despite other intentions, so far I did a whopping 3 dives.
Seems like in reality, I need to go far away to actually go diving.
Anyway, confidence and the skill to back it up with, both have improvement potential.
The pony is by no means a substitute for that.

That aside.
How or why should confidence supplant redundancy?
If I dive on a single tank, is a second tank (of whichever sort) with a second valve and first & second stage not the not the only true redundancy?

I mean I am a confident driver, but buckle up. I wear a helmet on a motorbike. I, once I had kids, even considered putting on a helmet for skiing... for 11 years or so before I actually did. But in the end I did. Did I ever need it? No, but I felt I am minimizing the risk of head injury and I want to do that. So I did.

For being under water, I just really like the thought of true self reliant redundancy. Even when buddy diving. For me the question - at least right now - is not about having or not having that redundancy. It is about bringing it or obtaining it on site.

What am I seeing wrong here?
Or how could or should I look at it differently in your mind?

 

[Marie13]

I sling my pony on nearly all my dives, primarily to get experience with it before I dive the Great Lakes (Michigan Saturday for the first time, Huron in a month). I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me. I have had all sorts of people question my sanity for diving with a pony, let alone a 30cft. I do what I want. I consider extra gas to never be a bad thing. The two people I dive with the most have been instructed to go for pony reg rather than my octo.

@Schwaeble if you want to take a pony while diving, take the pony.

 

[Schwob]

@Schwaeble if you want to take a pony while diving, take the pony.

Oh, I will.
But @tbone1004 knows his sh.. and usually has an insight or two more up his sleeves (my impression), so I am genuinely interested in his angle. Might learn somthing...