I didn't really mean to start reading this thread. I really didn't. I'm not really on anyone's side here, tree hugging hippies vs. rednecks who'd use dynamite if it would score them a decent meal as far as I can see. My opinions (for no apparent reason aside from liking the sound of my own internal voice, since everyone here appears to have moved on from fighting to cooking):
1) "It doesn't feel pain". If a creature has a survival instinct (and its fairly safe to assume that if it's alive it falls into this category), then its fairly safe to assume that its going to have a bad day if you do something to threaten its survival. I don't know invert biology, but I am a geneticist with something of an opinion on the above.
- My opinion? If you're going to kill it, kill it quickly. It IS going to notice on some level if you slowly boil it alive. Serial killers start out by torturing animals for fun, nice people try and avoid it.
2) "Commercial fishing does 1000x more damage than I could ever do".
- My opinion? I agree with this, I really do. In a healthy ecosytem you can happily remove a percentage of a population of animals safely since you are increasing the chances of survival of the rest of them (taking the ones that would have died anyway, essentially). In an unhealthy population - one that has been overfished for instance - you aren't doing this though are you? You are damaging the population, and removing individuals it can't afford to lose. I guess it all depends upon the situation, but don't place the blame entirely on someone else when you find your favourite food is hard to come by all of a sudden - we are all responsible for our own actions.
3) "Life would be better if we were all vegetarians". Tree-hugging hippy argument, which I tend to agree with sometimes. The planet has a lot of people on it, and meat has a higher energy cost to produce that plant life, ergo we could produce more food on the planet if we didn't eat meat, and everyone would have more food to eat. In truth political reasons have more to do with world hunger than this, but if the world population keeps growing then this is going to be relevant at some point.
-My opinion? A lot of americans (that I meet every day, since I live here) don't seem to get the fact that they are fat and selfish and stupid, and self-absorbed, and wantonly ignorant of the world around them, and apparently willing to follow a warlord chimp in a suit with the environmental wherewithall of a burning tyre fire, and wouldn't know hardship if it came and tatooed a picture of a starving child on their eyeballs. But I digress - bring me a cow, cleft it in twain and warm it till it's slightly pink.
4) "I like hunting".
-My opinion? I don't. But I'm not naive enough to think I can change you opinion, and if you dispatch the creature quickly and cleanly and then eat it, then I think we've come to about as much of a compromise as we can. Just don't be one of those morons who's out hunting the last white tiger because it would make a cool looking rug that the neighbours don't have, that's all I ask.
4) "I don't like people who hunt" / "I don't like people who whine about hunting".
-My opinion? Me neither.
Dave
PS If I hated all americans I wouldn't be here, I just think that many of them would be better people if they realised there was a whole world outside of america.
1) "It doesn't feel pain". If a creature has a survival instinct (and its fairly safe to assume that if it's alive it falls into this category), then its fairly safe to assume that its going to have a bad day if you do something to threaten its survival. I don't know invert biology, but I am a geneticist with something of an opinion on the above.
- My opinion? If you're going to kill it, kill it quickly. It IS going to notice on some level if you slowly boil it alive. Serial killers start out by torturing animals for fun, nice people try and avoid it.
2) "Commercial fishing does 1000x more damage than I could ever do".
- My opinion? I agree with this, I really do. In a healthy ecosytem you can happily remove a percentage of a population of animals safely since you are increasing the chances of survival of the rest of them (taking the ones that would have died anyway, essentially). In an unhealthy population - one that has been overfished for instance - you aren't doing this though are you? You are damaging the population, and removing individuals it can't afford to lose. I guess it all depends upon the situation, but don't place the blame entirely on someone else when you find your favourite food is hard to come by all of a sudden - we are all responsible for our own actions.
3) "Life would be better if we were all vegetarians". Tree-hugging hippy argument, which I tend to agree with sometimes. The planet has a lot of people on it, and meat has a higher energy cost to produce that plant life, ergo we could produce more food on the planet if we didn't eat meat, and everyone would have more food to eat. In truth political reasons have more to do with world hunger than this, but if the world population keeps growing then this is going to be relevant at some point.
-My opinion? A lot of americans (that I meet every day, since I live here) don't seem to get the fact that they are fat and selfish and stupid, and self-absorbed, and wantonly ignorant of the world around them, and apparently willing to follow a warlord chimp in a suit with the environmental wherewithall of a burning tyre fire, and wouldn't know hardship if it came and tatooed a picture of a starving child on their eyeballs. But I digress - bring me a cow, cleft it in twain and warm it till it's slightly pink.
4) "I like hunting".
-My opinion? I don't. But I'm not naive enough to think I can change you opinion, and if you dispatch the creature quickly and cleanly and then eat it, then I think we've come to about as much of a compromise as we can. Just don't be one of those morons who's out hunting the last white tiger because it would make a cool looking rug that the neighbours don't have, that's all I ask.
4) "I don't like people who hunt" / "I don't like people who whine about hunting".
-My opinion? Me neither.
Dave
PS If I hated all americans I wouldn't be here, I just think that many of them would be better people if they realised there was a whole world outside of america.
