Point-for-point on what's missing from OW Classes

[Jarhead]

detroit diver once bubbled...



So who makes up the RTSC?

Regardless, just because an organization sets the minimum standards, it doesn't mean that you can't improve on these standards to improve the quality of your product and produce a better end result.

I did find that the standards are being revised.

http://www.ansi.org/news_publications/media_tips/scuba.aspx?menuid=7

Jarhead

 

[Jarhead]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Regardless, just because an organization sets the minimum standards, it doesn't mean that you can't improve on these standards to improve the quality of your product and produce a better end result.

And there are agencies/instructors that go "above and beyond",
but by raising the minimum for the entire dive industry, new diver quality as a whole should improve.

Jarhead

 

[TCDiver1]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Don't you consider unmasking you as an inexperienced idiot to be a valuable contribution? I know lots of folks do, ask around.

You aren't even an average PADI instructor, much less an expert. You're what most of us call a "90 day wonder". Once again, how long have you been diving?

My experience and qualifications have been posted many times. I couldn't care less if you agree with my politics or my opinion on pretty much anything other than diving. As far as diving goes, you're strictly an amateur (that's a French word, it means punk). As a somewhat famous former actor might say "I pity the fool that draws you as an instructor".

WW

Cuz i agree with much of what DB has said. Please feel free, if you feel the need, to tell me you already knew that, since i am a only a Padi instructor. That would fit the characterization many on this board make of non-Gue/Dir systems.

I agree with DB that if properly taught, Naui, Padi, SSI, etc programs give OW divers all the tools required to be a safe, efficient diver. How they choose to implement those tools is largely left up to the student. But thats another thread topic.

None of these progams are perfect and all could be improved upon IMO, but they are far from as broken as many of you say.

I wait with anticipation, for the Gue Ow course to see how they are going to improve upon the current situation. I assume the DirF course will become obsolete when that happens since they should teach all of those things in OW. Time will tell how well that works out for GUE and the industry. Personally, i agree that a little revolution, from time to time, is a good thing.

As always and IMO, there is middle ground between both arguments. I, like DB, am very comfortable with the students i am putting out using the Padi system. Thats not to say improvements can't be made, they can, and i for one am working on making those improvements. That doesn't mean the students put out before those improvements are unprepared divers. Its just not as black and white as many of you would try to make it IMO.

Much of what many of you feel is deficent with the current OW systems has been borne out of the technical community since "trim etc" was not taught in my BOW class in 79. I guess Padi classes were "dumbed down" back then too.

 

[WreckWriter]

gedunk once bubbled...
I agree with DB that if properly taught, Naui, Padi, SSI, etc programs give OW divers all the tools required to be a safe, efficient diver.

I don't entirely disagree with that either. My point was that DB doesn't have the experience to be a good instructor in my opinion, not that the system he teaches is terribly bad. I do agree with Mike and others on improvements that would make the system better.

WW

 

[TCDiver1]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


I do agree with Mike and others on improvements that would make the system better.

WW

So do i. I just had to pick a post to jump in on this thread and you were the winner. Lucky you.

Seriously, sometimes i think i see too many shades of grey for this board. There are so many variables, of which the training agency standards are only one.

I've seen too many divers forsake their training, for convenience, to think otherwise.

 

[WreckWriter]

gedunk once bubbled...
Seriously, sometimes i think i see too many shades of grey for this board.

Shades of grey are good. I tend to see black and white only, gets me in trouble sometimes and in arguments often.

WW

 

[MikeFerrara]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Shades of grey are good. I tend to see black and white only, gets me in trouble sometimes and in arguments often.

WW

Me too.

gedunk,
Just to put it in perspective, this thread started as a dsicussion about why I thought home study alone wasn't adequate. DB broke it off into it's own thread.

There is alot of grey here. The standards are one issue. Then there is the intent of the standards and how well they are actually implemented.

IMO, if one meets the intent of the standards while the end product could still be improved it would be better than what we have. Doing each skill once in the pool and surviving 4, 20 minute OW dives while silting the entire site IMO does not meet the intent of any agencies standards yet it's done every day.

 

[detroit diver]

Please tell me if I'm reading this right:

I went to the World Recreational Scuba Training council website (www.wrstc.com). When you click on member agencies in the United States, the following shows up:

IDEA
PADI
PDIC
SSI
YSCUBA

Are these the "people" that set the standards for the RSTC?

Please tell me that's not the case.

 

[TCDiver1]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Shades of grey are good. I tend to see black and white only, gets me in trouble sometimes and in arguments often.

WW

Well ..... i'm guilty of the same. This topic is just a little fuzzier to me than most.

Mike,

I was busy all weekend but did catch up on this thread today. You know how i feel. To me it ain't as busted as many make it sound. I don't know DiverBuoys bonifides, but much of what he said rings true to me, based on experience.

A diver with good trim is definately a better diver but can your average new OW diver be expected to have good trim after meeting Padi minimum standards for OW. The answer is no. Teaching trim is not specifically mentioned in standards and many new divers who meet the currents standards, will take significant amounts of time to achieve good trim. I agree that needs to change, however......

Is it realistic to expect OW divers to have good trim before they get their OW c-card? I know your answer to that. I honestly don't know but for now my answer to that is no. I've got too many active divers out there doing fine to answer yes.

But in many respects the jury is still out for me. My next two OW classes, who were taught trim more extensively in CW, will tell the tale. I'll be sold if OW goes better than before. Then i'll have the uphill battle with the LDSs to change their rental gear to more appropriate BCs for trimming out. 90% sure i won't win that battle if it comes to it, which it probably will.

 

[detroit diver]

Jarhead once bubbled...


And there are agencies/instructors that go "above and beyond",
but by raising the minimum for the entire dive industry, new diver quality as a whole should improve.

Jarhead

I wholeheartedly agree with you here. My instructor was one of them, and I was very lucky.