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[Lorenzoid]

Okay, you opened the door.

Captive breeding programs to help preserve species are one thing. Half-assed aquariums in hotel lobbies, dentists' offices, Chinese restaurants, frat houses, and countless people's homes, where the animals swim in unnaturally confined spaces until they die, are flushed down the toilet, and replaced, is another thing entirely. How many die unecessarily? Like many other endeavors, there are people who engage in these things responsibly and people who don't. Call me a cynic, but I believe the majority are irresponsible and/or ignorant. This is based on the aquariums I have seen in places like I mentioned. No doubt there are responsible, knowledgeable people like James out there, but for every James how many of these other yahoos are there? I am all in favor of licensed breeding facilities run by professionals or semi-professionals who know what they're doing. I am in favor of tightly regulating the collection of species for these facilities. An uncontrolled market in wild animals for self-proclaimed "hobbyists" to do as they please with will do no favors to the environment, animal welfare, or preservation of species.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

For all of you concerned citizens - do yourself a favor look long and hard in the mirror.

Then go out and help / assist / volunteer to help a human / neighbor in need - you obviously have too much time on your hands and have no clue about helping others in need. When the human condition in your local area is better then by all means feel free to focus on other areas...

Thank you - a local volunteer - who is getting annoyed that humans get a second seat to animals / fish / environment and anything else in social media...

 

[CuzzA]

Lorenzoid, you make some fair points and at least put forth some thoughtful arguments.

I think there are a lot more success than the few systems you've seen. I'm on several boards, a member of a club and have seen some amazing things happen within the marine aquarium industry. Just about everyone advocates and teaches others the best practices. The Internet has completely changed everything. Information is at the tip of our fingers, where as before you bought a book and the information was outdated, wrong or new discoveries were made before it even left the printing press. It's a very expensive hobby and most everyone is trying to avoid mistakes and provide the best environment for their inhabitants. No one wants to pay $100 for a fish only to have it die. Hell, did you know a large majority of people's systems today are being run by automated technology in the form of controllers. Most of us can view every aspect of their tank (including video) from their smart phone and receive alerts when something is off. These technologies have had huge improvements in the success of systems. But, unless you are actively involved you would never know this.

One other final point on this. Everything is prey to something else in the wild. In fact the vast majority of baby fish are consumed by something else. This doesn't happen once they've been placed in a safe environment. So if I place baby fish in my tank and they live 20 years and die of natural causes is that a bad thing?

To address some of your other points. Regulation. Absolutely, the majority of us want sustainable fisheries. This is one of the problems with the Blue Hippo Tang. It lives in an area of the world with little regulation. We know for a fact sustainable fisheries work. Florida is the perfect example. Unfortunatley for some species we were a little late before we got serious, but since implementing regulations we've had species bounce back and continue to grow. American Red Snapper and Goliath Grouper are two perfect examples. For ornamentals, Australia and Hawaii's fishery managements are two models that can set the framework for other fisheries around the world.

As far as only professionals being able to breed them. Why? Much of the science and equipment used by everyone, including professionals was discovered and developed by hobbyists and the aquarium industry. Hell, most hobbyist's I know would make some marine biologist look silly in a debate. I've seen it happen. Unlike an industry/field like space exploration for example, where there is a lot of government funding and only professionals have access to programs to make discoveries, the marine industry is different. The average person can set up their lab... Errr.... I mean tank and make discoveries. How cool is that. A private industry built the foundation for the science. Without us, we would be decades behind where we are today.

Finally, the idea that all fish are miserable in aquariums is just wrong. Most are in appropriately sized tanks and are well fed. Some like to be pet.

*Not my video

 

[NYCNaiad]

For all of you concerned citizens - do yourself a favor look long and hard in the mirror. Then go out and help / assist / volunteer to help a human / neighbor in need - you obviously have too much time on your hands and have no clue about helping others in need. When the human condition in your local area is better then by all means feel free to focus on other areas...Thank you - a local volunteer - who is getting annoyed that humans get a second seat to animals / fish / environment and anything else in social media...

I don't think it needs to be an either/or situation. I volunteer to help animals, fish, the environment AND people. In fact, I've often found that while people talk a good game re: supporting animals/fish/the environment, they don't often do anything for them like they do for people. For example, I started a charitable work at a number of companies I've worked at to do a good deed once a month. I pick a range of things to not only get people involved, but also show them how easy it is to do some good in this world (e.g., donating food to the local food bank, donating blood, helping in the local community garden, raising money for animals, etc.). Quite often, my coworkers would only do the people-based charitable works which I think is a shame.

We can do a lot of good in a lot of different areas out there. I'm glad you're helping people. I'm glad CuzzA is trying to help marine life. One doesn't have to preclude the other.

 

[diver0008]

you obviously have too much time on your hands and have no clue about helping others in need.

That is very presumptuous.

 

[diver0008]

Most are in appropriately sized tanks

Grrrrrrrr.

 

[CuzzA]

Grrrrrrrr.

Fair enough. Most people who have done any sort of "research" are putting fish in appropriately sized tanks. Any quality retailer both online or brick and mortar will list tank sizes for species.

Edit:
Man, you are obsessed. Did you even share the original message with your friends or are you just trolling this thread?

 

[diver0008]

appropriately sized tanks.

There is no such thing. Caging free creatures is terrible karma.

You continue to try to justify this in a forum comprised of people who take considerable measures to travel to where the fish live in nature's beauty and observe them with as little impact as possible.

You surely must have expected some blowback here with this erroneous posting.

If your initial intention was to stop blue tangs ending up in forced confinement, with which I have no quarrel, Disney, your culprit, is suspiciously obtuse, as you seem to be an active party in the industry that directly facilitates what you now, here, deflect upon others.

 

[CuzzA]

What if I ate the fish. Then will I NOT be cursed with "terrible karma"?

You know people in other countries eat what many Westerners consider pets. Like this Unicorn tang for example.

IMO, You have a black and white view on this subject, harvest = evil, no harvest = good, whereas I, and many in power see it differently. We can harvest responsibly. I don't know how many times I've said "sustainable fishing" but you likely don't view it as a solution and probably don't think anything should be removed from the ocean. That's fine. Man has utilized the ocean since the dawn of time and it will never change. However, man has to do it responsibly and that's all I'm asking for here.

Look, it's pretty clear you and I will not agree or change one another's mind so let's save ourselves the waste of time and leave it at that.

 

[diver0008]

You are posting in support of putting fish in small glass boxes (the opposite of scuba diving) in a scuba diving forum, and I'm the troll?

You are posting essays and I'm obsessed?

You are in the wrong place to clear your conscience.