Photo education

[KazooDiver]

As a newbie in photography, what would you folks recommend in advancing my knowledge in this area. I was thinking about taking a photography class at the local community college. I know there must be some online stuff.

I don't want to become a pro, just would like to be able to take more advantages that my camera (both my topside and underwater).

 

[alcina]

A hands on course locally will be great. Don't worry too much if it's even about underwater - the better you are on land and with your gear in general, the better you will be underwater. If there is an instructor or mentor (you don't need the plastic card) who also shoots underwater, it might be worth hooking up with her/him, too. It's amazing what you can learn with instant feedback.

There are 100s of good books out there and gems in most of them. Same with online tutorials - a google search will give you a good list to start.

There's nothing better than actually taking photos, though. So shoot every day - anything, something. The more you shoot the more you develop (pardon the pun ).

Post images here and ask for feedback - I can't believe what incredible resources our members are!

If you are shooting digital, get a good book on post-processing. All digital files need a little something - especially if you shoot RAW. RAW lets you make the decisions instead of your camera making them and to get the best out of it, you need to know how to manage the file. Same with jpegs...the camera makes most of the decisions but with a tiny bit of pp you can go from really nice to WOW sometimes.

 

[Warmwater Wank]

Kazoo--Go online to your local CC and see what gives. Often they will have non-credit classes (Community Ed type ones) which can be helpful and are cheaper. If you are serious though do a credit class--they will drag you over the hurdles more but the re-enforcement you get from having to produce work (or flunk!) only adds to the value.

I teach b&w darkroom classes (and taught Photoshop for several years) at our local CC, but I'm new to diving and UW photography. As a newbie diver (50+ dives) my UW photgraphy puts me in a very amateur status, but I kind of like that. Makes me work harder. I look at the images done by folks in these threads and see not only how good they are but how much they are willing to share. With a basic understanding of how photography works, you'll get more from what SB'ers have to offer.

Doesn't really matter if your CC does digital or film--an f/stop is an f/stop. I'd also bet K-zoo has a local camera club. Check with your local camera store, they would probably have some info or may even offer classes. And take Alcina's advice--shoot lots and ask questions!

"Learning to see photographically is a photographer's greatest challenge."
--Edward Weston

 

[f3nikon]

I agree so far except for this part:

“If you are shooting digital, get a good book on post-processing”

I would recommend the opposite and pretend than post-processing had never been invented. This way the aspiring photographer would have to apply his or her skills in achieving a very sharp, well-exposed, correctly composed photograph. Post-processing will only act as a barrier or handicap to your final goal of sound photographic knowledge.

The basic difference between film and digital is the recording medium. Sound photographic principles still apply to both. Principles in composition like the “law of thirds”, exposure control as in f stops and shutter speed and focus as in depth of field or point of focus and have to be mastered when using digital as much as when using film.

You should have absolute control of the final image before you snap that shutter and if not, you should be able to make the exact changes to correct the problem, this teaches you to bracket your shots or shoot many shots at various settings. Crop in camera as much as possible, not after the picture is taken.

Post processing is a valuable tool but it in itself cannot replace a near perfect image from the hands of a skilled photographer. Meaning with U/W photography extemely close shooting in wide angles as well as macros, strobe lit etc.

Just remember that light travels in a straight path and dull light yields dull photographs.

 

[alcina]

Actually, all digital files need pp of some sort - it's the darkroom.

Yes, you need to get the information (photo) correct, but "out of camera" is a bit of a myth really. Especially shooting RAW. If you shoot RAW and do nothing, then there's no point to shoot RAW. Kinda like shooting film/slides and taking it to the mini-mart. jpeg to some extent is the same way.

PP as I discuss it isn't fixing a bad photo so much as finishing the product you saw in your mind's eye. You've got to have the goods to make PP worthwhile and effective. It's an essential part of the process - just like lens choice, ISO choice, aperture choice etc on down the line.

Again, a good book, course, web site or mentor that explains it so you understand what your camera is doing and what your software is doing is invaluable.

If you want to do tricksy things with PP there are tons of books out there for that, too. That is beyond the basics - and you still have to have the base image to work with.

There's nothing better than actually taking photos, though. So shoot every day - anything, something.

You've got to have all the pieces of this puzzle working together or nothing will save the image .

...pretend than post-processing was never invented. This way the aspiring photographer would have to apply his or her skills in achieving a very sharp, well-exposed, correctly composed photograph. Post-processing will only act as a barrier or handicap to your final goal of sound photographic knowledge.

I personally think this is bunk. It assumes that just because you're shooting digital you don't care about the fundamentals and that's not a very accurate blanket statement in a thread asking for help on learning photography! Clearly the OP wants to learn. Ignoring PP with digital is like shooting the roll of film and sticking it back in the canister.

There will always be those out there that are happy snappers - film or digital - who don't want to know, and that's just fine, too, but I think the OP isn't in that category.

 

[f3nikon]

Please explain:

“PP as I discuss it isn't fixing a bad photo so much as finishing the product you saw in your mind's eye.”

I know the Ansel Adam thing about the mind’s eye, but are you stating that a modern, name brand, digital camera with the PROPER amount of lighting is NOT capable of reproducing the colors that you perceive to be on the subject, unless you run it through some post process?
Because with the PROPER lighting today's digital camera is more than capable of reproducing the colors from a PORPERLY exposed subject in fact some of the colors come out over saturated!

Or

"I personally think this is bunk. It assumes that just because you're shooting digital you don't care about the fundamentals and that's not a very accurate blanket statement in a thread asking for help on learning photography! Clearly the OP wants to learn. Ignoring PP with digital is like shooting the roll of film and sticking it back in the canister."

I actually said the opposite:

The basic difference between film and digital is the recording medium. Sound photographic principles still apply to both. Principles in composition like the “law of thirds”, exposure control as in f stops and shutter speed and focus as in depth of field or point of focus and have to be MASTERED when using DIGITAL as much as when using film.

PP to me IMHO is really just a tool to remove scratches or other imperfections in the image, I do agree on your shooting more often comment.

 

[JTemple]

Don't take the bait, Alcina!

 

[KazooDiver]

Gosh, Thank you all for your comments! Very helpful! I am planning on a CC course but, not sure when...as next semester I might be very busy (we are going into contract negotiations with the hospital I work for). So, in the mean time, is there any websites/tutorials that any of you would recommend. How about some books?

 

[BurBunny]

By the way, you should *never* crop in-camera with digital. Doing so degrades the pixels. Always crop in post-processing. Going hand-in-hand with that, you can crop to the RULE of thirds (there are no laws in art - just guidelines... and rules are made to be broken), but sometimes creativity in composition makes the greatest statement.

Some cameras do inherently up the saturation. Yet another reason for judicious post-processing. Just like some film media were known for rich saturation which a photographer might want to tone down in developing. When shooting in RAW, you *have* to post-process, because you're relying on your brain, not the camera's, to make the decisions as to how that shot really looked. I'd much rather have it that way, as the little microchip isn't as capable as most brains on this forum.

Digital is a different medium. Yes, you want to get the basics down in your initial shot, but the refinement, whether it's from film or pixels, is always done post processing. Art doesn't come from a Wal-Mart developer.

 

[f3nikon]

Gosh, Thank you all for your comments! Very helpful! I am planning on a CC course but, not sure when...as next semester I might be very busy (we are going into contract negotiations with the hospital I work for). So, in the mean time, is there any websites/tutorials that any of you would recommend. How about some books?

Good luck on the negotiations and your endeavors in the world of photography.

http://www.johnshawphoto.com/home.htm

I learn a bunch from Mr. Shaw's books.