Phoenix Model II

[Nemrod]

Yep, the word on the street, actually at www.vintagedoublehose.com is that metal will be cut in December if there are enough purchasers to make an order. Better get on the list ASAP to reserve one or be sorry because you just never know how long it might be again before they are available. Get them now while the getting is good. Rob a bank, break into the kids piggy bank, sell your Apexo, whatever it takes.

N

 

[TN Traveler]

Stop encouraging people - the price of old DA Aquamasters is going through the roof. Once people find out how much better these old Double Hose Regulators are (especially when fitted with a Phoenix Nozzle) those of us that love them will be unable to afford them. Heck, this is 50 year old technology.

People don't need a reg with low cracking pressure, no freeze ups and no bubble interference. Let the general diving population enjoy their modern throw-away plastic regulators.

If people find out how good they perform you will be putting the existing manufacturers of plastic, single hose regs out of business. You will be responsible for putting thousands out of work and crashing the entire economic system of the scuba industry.

And if it really catches on - you will lose your unique identity as a diver using really cool :14: stuff ....

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!

 

[Poogweese]

I'm on the list, and am really looking forward to making the DA/Phoenix my primary reg. I think all that's needed is six more names to cut metal-Wahoo!

Hope everyone gets a chance to go diving this weekend to work off those 4,500 calories:turkey:


Poog

 

[Nemrod]

TN, your cruel, take pity upon the poor little DIRs, how can you let them suffer with those g-awful plastic toys, your just mean.

N

 

[TN Traveler]

N

I'm just protecting my interests. Got to get another DA, so I can install another Phoenix and get my wife to dive it. If the prices keep escalating she'll be in a poodle jacket and plastic reg forever (or she'll claim mine and I'll be back to diving them ).

Besides, most of the DIR types want the latest and greatest - not 50 year old gear. If they ever discover the fun of diving a horsecollar, plate and double hose their entire faith would be shaken. What would come next - split fins????

I'm not mean - just selfish - want to keep all the fun/pleasure for myself.

 

[Alex777]

I'm in for 1. I think I'm a bit late buying a DA Aquamaster, though - the prices are already through the roof and heading upwards. Heck, I could sell both my Apeks regs and recover just about enough for 1 DA!

 

[Luis H]

Phoenix Mod-II

Back at Sand Dog IV I showed Bryan and few others my drawing for a slightly improved Phoenix nozzle…the Mod-II. I am personally very pleased with the way the original Phoenix turned out, both from my personal experience with it and the feedback that we have received, but like with most things, there is normally some room for improvement.

Based on the feedback that we have received there has been one improvement that some divers would like to see. If it was possible to make it shorter it could fit more back packs or back plates. Well the best I can reasonably squeeze is a 1/10 inch shorter. This may not sound like much, but I hope it is enough to make a difference to some.

The limiting factor is the space needed for the ports. Just to achieve this size reduction I had to add an undercut at the end of the 7/8” threads. It is very expensive and almost impossible to cut threads right up to a flat surface. The undercut allows cutting the threads and having a run off for the cutting tool.

Another minor improvement is the enlargement of the air passages and angling them to avoid two 90 degree turns in the air flow. The idea is to reduce IP fluctuations during the breathing cycle. How significant is this improvement is hard to tell.

I had the prototype Phoenix modified and tried testing it, but I don’t have the equipment to consistently apply a repeatable flow rate. Therefore my results were inconclusive. I would need a flow meter like the one here: Peter Built Co. SCUBA Repair Technician Testing Instruments , (part number 26-250-025), in order to be able to get better test data.

At this point I am seeing a bigger bottle neck to the air flow in the regulator main body, but I am just making sure to minimize in any way possible the flow resistance in the Phoenix first stage. Any performance improvement will be small, but there is just not much room for improving the performance of a well tuned Royal Aqua Master.

Below are drawings of the Phoenix Mod-II and the original Phoenix.


Phoenix Mod-II

Original Phoenix (notice drawing doesn't mention the Phoenix name... it didn't have a name at first)

 

[TN Traveler]

Actually you could sell both Apex and easily afford a DA with the Phoenix conversion (and total rebuild) - but all you would get is an easy breathing, indestructible regulator. Mine lasted 49 years before the Phoenix was added - and with the new silicone diaphragm and hoses - it will definately still be around long after I'm too old to dive.

I guess if you wanted to be DIR, you could put a 7 foot hose on the octo - but I find a 5 foot is adequate for recreational type dives (I don't do caves or wreck penetrations).

I've let 2 divemasters borrow it for dives and they were totally blown away with it.

There are still some DA's around for a reasonable price - just plan on a total rebuild to go along with the Phoenix installation - which is a good idea anyhow. Parts are readily available now thanks to Bryan at Vintage DoubleHose. Funny thing is how many of the parts are still the same from the time of the DA to the current Titans.

Once someone starts making a silicone "duckbill" valve - the only parts that will ever need changing are the hp and lp seats.

 

[Luis H]

I'm in for 1. I think I'm a bit late buying a DA Aquamaster, though - the prices are already through the roof and heading upwards. Heck, I could sell both my Apeks regs and recover just about enough for 1 DA!

Your best bet is often to go for DA that looks in really bad shape and just count on re-chroming it. You will actually end up with a better finish and should cost you a lot less (even with the approximate $100 or less for re-chroming).

There are tons of DA’s out there, they were built for about 15 years in large quantities, so there is plenty of them out there. You just have to find them.

Don’t try to get a nice one…they cost too much. Just plan on rebuild it and refinishing it.
And with the Phoenix, you end up with a balanced Royal Aqua Master…the King of regulators.


Or you can buy a complete package from Bryan. Were he has done all the rebuilding (and re-finishing if needed) and you will end up with a good unit ready to dive at a very reasonable price.

 

[Alex777]

Thanks, TN & Luis. I will monitor eBay for a while, and then buy from Bryan if I can't find one for rebuilding & rechroming.