Peer Pressure in Chuuk

[Water Monkey]

Was it an acceptable risk for the guy who comes to you OOA @165'?

Terry

This is the reason that I do a lot of solo diving. After I jump in the water I usually go my own way. And I normally let anyone else that jumps in the water with me know that I’m going to do that. You made some decisions when you jumped in the water with me that I will not take responsibility for. If you have a problem underwater and I’m around I will do everything within my power to help you, but it’s not my responsibility to tell anyone else what to do or how to dive, unless of course they are a student. When I’m in the water I am focused on my dive, not someone else’s dive. I have done deep trimix team diving 300+. On those dives I have a job to do, and that is to be part of the team. I do it and I do it by the book. But again my preference is to do my own thing.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Was it an acceptable risk for the guy who comes to you OOA @165'?

Presuming they observed Water Monkey carrying an AL80 and a pony bottle on a dive to 165'+ and presuming they themselves were trained to dive to 165'+, I would normally assume they also knew exactly what they were getting into, especially as they were diving AL80s themselves.

And if they hadn't been trained to dive to 165' using any configuration, they had no business being down there at all, much less running out of gas and looking for a buddy.

Water Monkey, you said you ended up OOG on the AL80 and breathing off the pony yourself. Did you have enough gas to handle an OOG buddy or was this essentially a solo dive in the company of other solo divers?

Not judging either way, just trying to get some perspective on the risks involved.

Ah! Question answered!!

 

[Water Monkey]

Presuming they observed Water Monkey carrying an AL80 and a pony bottle on a dive to 165'+ and presuming they themselves were trained to dive to 165'+, I would normally assume they also knew exactly what they were getting into, especially as they were diving AL80s themselves.

And if they hadn't been trained to dive to 165' using any configuration, they had no business being down there at all, much less running out of gas and looking for a buddy.

Water Monkey, you said you ended up OOG on the AL80 and breathing off the pony yourself. Did you have enough gas to handle an OOG buddy or was this essentially a solo dive in the company of other solo divers?

Not judging either way, just trying to get some perspective on the risks involved.

Ah! Question answered!!

I was actually diving with a group of people that I knew nothing about. Someone had placed an eighty at the bottom of the decent line. One of the people in the group ran low on air and took it with him on his accent leaving the rest of them to fin for them selves, no pun intended. I knew my consumption rate would allow me to make that dive and I watched that whole thing with morbid amusement. If someone had come to me out of air there would have been some tough decisions to make. This brings me to my whole philosophy on buddy dive. When you jump in the water is your buddy a liability or an asset? Me, generally find that they are a liability.

 

[TSandM]

This is going to sound harsh, and I suppose it is . . . but you made some risk calculations for yourself, and decided to do that dive by yourself. What would you have done if you had had a problem at 165 feet, and YOU needed gas? Would you have quietly drowned? I don't think so. I think what you did was obligate the rest of the people in the water with you to save you, without their assent.

I have no problem with someone solo diving, assuming they have the experience to do so. I have a BIG problem with people "solo diving" when, in fact, they are actually a member of a group, however loosely knit that group is, because at that point, any member of the group can be called upon to do a rescue they didn't plan or agree to do.

When I do deep dives, I do them with a team. We all have well-maintained equipment and well-trained skills. We all subscribe to the same philosophy when it comes to planning and safety. We accept the responsibility to rescue one another, but with that comes the understanding that the other team members have done everything they can to avoid needing a rescue. On a 165 foot dive, I'd have rock bottom to get me and a teammate to our gas switch. If I had to rescue somebody NOT on my team, who hadn't done the appropriate planning and didn't have appropriate reserves, I'd do it, but I'd be a bit steamed about it.

 

[rjack321]

If I had to rescue somebody NOT on my team, who hadn't done the appropriate planning and didn't have appropriate reserves, I'd do it, but I'd be a bit steamed about it.

This is why I own my own boat, when I do use a charter I hand pick attendees, and haven't gone on an open boat is 4+ years.

 

[scubaskipper]

Anyone else notice that females are more likely to listen to that little voice? Good on ya Amy.

 

[Water Monkey]

This is going to sound harsh, and I suppose it is . . . but you made some risk calculations for yourself, and decided to do that dive by yourself. What would you have done if you had had a problem at 165 feet, and YOU needed gas? Would you have quietly drowned? I don't think so. I think what you did was obligate the rest of the people in the water with you to save you, without their assent.

I have no problem with someone solo diving, assuming they have the experience to do so. I have a BIG problem with people "solo diving" when, in fact, they are actually a member of a group, however loosely knit that group is, because at that point, any member of the group can be called upon to do a rescue they didn't plan or agree to do.

When I do deep dives, I do them with a team. We all have well-maintained equipment and well-trained skills. We all subscribe to the same philosophy when it comes to planning and safety. We accept the responsibility to rescue one another, but with that comes the understanding that the other team members have done everything they can to avoid needing a rescue. On a 165 foot dive, I'd have rock bottom to get me and a teammate to our gas switch. If I had to rescue somebody NOT on my team, who hadn't done the appropriate planning and didn't have appropriate reserves, I'd do it, but I'd be a bit steamed about it.

Thank you for weighing in TS&M. I respect your ideas and comments. I and I respect your choice to dive in a manor that you see as within your acceptable risk limits.
I have jumped in the water a lot of times since my open water in 1979. And I have done a lot of stupid things. I tend to learn things the hard way, but every problem that I have ever had underwater has been my own fault. Every mechanical failure that I have ever had has been my own fault. Every mechanical failure that I have ever had has been ether because I did not service my equipment or while servicing my equipment myself I screwed it up. But, over the years I have learned to service my equipment correctly and I as well keep my equipment in good working order. As I wrote earlier I knew my consumption rate and I knew my equipment was in good working order. At the end of the dive my consumption estimation was right on. So the likelihood of me needing someone else’s gas was quite slim.
I never jump in the water with out a plan. It may not be the best plan and it may or my not include the person sitting next to me on the boat. I never said this was a good plan, in fact I wrote earlier that it was reckless. We all have decisions that we make before we jump in. Everyone on that boat knew what everyone else was diving with. If something were to go wrong then they would need to accept the consequences. In this case I don’t feel that anyone would have the right to "get steamed" as you put it if someone came to them ooa.

 

[Web Monkey]

Everyone on that boat knew what everyone else was diving with. If something were to go wrong then they would need to accept the consequences. In this case I don’t feel that anyone would have the right to "get steamed" as you put it if someone came to them ooa.

I suspect if you stood up on the boat an announced: "I've calculated my gas needs exactly, and there's enough for me, but none for any of you if you run out." that you wouldn't be the most popular guy on the boat.

In fact, since our boat requires buddy teams, you wouldn't be allowed to dive if you announced that your emergency plan for another OOA diver was "sucks to be you."

Terry

 

[Water Monkey]

I suspect if you stood up on the boat an announced: "I've calculated my gas needs exactly, and there's enough for me, but none for any of you if you run out." that you wouldn't be the most popular guy on the boat.

In fact, since our boat requires buddy teams, you wouldn't be allowed to dive if you announced that your emergency plan for another OOA diver was "sucks to be you."

Terry

Well being popular has never been one of my attributes. And that was still a great dive.

 

[Madacub]

I knew this was coming. I was diving with a group of people that were also diving eighties.

I'd be interested in how many others there were. Looks like this wreck ranges from 150' to 210' - What was your own maximum depth & time? Did the others all actually get to the wreck or did any of them change their minds? Did any of them have pony bottles? Any problems? Was there only one cylinder tied to the descent line? Who was the dive operator?

Sorry for all the questions, I just like to get facts and opinions in equal measure! And I hope Amy doesn't think the thread is being totally hijacked - we're still on topic, kind of.

As for myself, thank goodness my own consumption is so terrible that I'd never be tempted to dive in this manner... (uh oh, did I say "never"?)