Panic regulator removal

[Colliam7]

I thought I recalled a comment made in a spin-off thread last summer focused on panic, in which a poster mentioned a phenomenon of panicked divers, who cannot get enough air from their regulator (because of their rapid breathing), feeling as if they were suffocating and pulling their regulator from their mouth underwater, and drowning as a result. (In fact, I may have referenced it in a later post myself.) But, I have gone back through that thread and can't find the original comment. I have done a search and not found it, but the challenge may be finding the right terms. Does anyone know of, or recall in a thread, references to this phenomenon - specifically drowning cases where divers pull their regulators out underwater, associated with panic, hyperventilation, etc?

 

[Walter]

Does anyone know of, or recall in a thread, references to this phenomenon - specifically drowning cases where divers pull their regulators out underwater, associated with panic, hyperventilation, etc?

No, but I've seen it more times than I care to remember.

 

[do it easy]

I've seen it once- an older student was breathing rapidly at 20'. When we got close to the ascent line, he panicked and headed up hand over hand. I grabbed him to slow him down and he spit out his reg. I shoved my reg in his mouth and hoped he had enough sense to breathe.

When we got to the surface, he made this awful wheezing noise and I was expecting to see foaming blood spew from all his orifices. He said he had a really dry throat (probably from breathing so hard) but was fine otherwise. I think his panic was caused by feeling air starved.

 

[robint]

ditto..........my husband is an instructor and +50% of the time when students panic they take out their regulator. It is sooooo illogical, but they still do it. My husband says he is constantly putting regs back into divers mouths. He says he always knows when they are going to do it though - their eyes get really big, then they start to bolt to the surface, some with reg in mouth, some without. He can usually grab them immediately and poke it back in without an issue. It seems to be a 'panic mode' issue for students more than anything.

The big problem with this though is when new divers aren't within arm reach of an instructor! I would bet many divers die from doing this at depth, not exhaling on way up, and blowing a lung from expansion injury or drowning.

robin

 

[Walter]

I think his panic was caused by feeling air starved.

Panic is almost always caused by feeling air starved. That's part of the panic cycle.

 

[Walter]

ditto..........my husband is an instructor and +50% of the time when students panic they take out their regulator. It is sooooo illogical, but they still do it. My husband says he is constantly putting regs back into divers mouths.

Robin, it soundslike he should rethink his teaching methods. If lots of his students panic, he's doing something wrong. People panic because they are afraid. To help keep them from getting scared, they need to slowly build their confidence. This is done by having them complete easy, simple tasks building to more complicated, but still easy (because of the skills they've learned) tasks until nothing about diving will frighten them.

Sometimes, people still get scared. An understanding of the panic cycle can stop this fear from turning into panic. "Stop, breathe, think, act" isn't enough. They have to understand that they need to take deep, slow breaths. Shallow breathing, especially rapid shallow breathing causes carbon dioxide build up. Carbon dioxide build up, in turn, causes a person to feel a greater need to breathe. They breathe faster and shallower resulting in more CO2 and very quickly the rational part of the brain shuts down. That is panic.

 

[robint]

Robin, it soundslike he should rethink his teaching methods. If lots of his students panic, he's doing something wrong. People panic because they are afraid. To help keep them from getting scared, they need to slowly build their confidence. This is done by having them complete easy, simple tasks building to more complicated, but still easy (because of the skills they've learned) tasks until nothing about diving will frighten them.

Sometimes, people still get scared. An understanding of the panic cycle can stop this fear from turning into panic. "Stop, breathe, think, act" isn't enough. They have to understand that they need to take deep, slow breaths. Shallow breathing, especially rapid shallow breathing causes carbon dioxide build up. Carbon dioxide build up, in turn, causes a person to feel a greater need to breathe. They breathe faster and shallower resulting in more CO2 and very quickly the rational part of the brain shuts down. That is panic.

NO, not at all. YOu are missunderstanding what I said. I said that when a student panics, 50% toss the reg.... I didn't say that 50% of his students panic. He is an excellent instructor and all his students love him and his methods. Part of the reason we may have more students panic is that we aren't diving in sunny Florida like you - when you have to certify students in 60 degree water where they can see the bottom, wearing 7mm suits and lots of weight, it is more task-loading than some people can handle. I know my first time in that water it was waaay scary for me and I had been certified over a year but only dove in Caribbean clear water.

And you say that panic is always caused by feeling air starved? Wrong, lots of students panic because they get water in their mask or up nose, etc. There are many reasons people panic, not ALL have to do with being air starved.

 

[plumbcrazy]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this so if need be it can be moved.
Quite a few years ago this happened to me. I was diving in Mexico, this was my second trip there. I got on a cattle boat (first mistake). I hadn't dove much at all before that and only had three dives in the ocean, and the people on the boat had much more dives then I had.
So here's how it played out. On the way out to the site the boat was very loud. The dive master didn't speak good English, and he also put himself in position so that not everyone could hear him. What I missed was the depth of the dive (mistake two), although at that time being young and believing nothing could happen to me I am not sure I would have stayed on the boat. We then jumped from the boat and descended. Before I knew it I was at 118 feet. (mistake three) That worried me, but I took it ok. We then looked over to see the first shark I had ever seen in the ocean.(WOW) We then came up you a depth of 90 feet, this is where I seen the first turtle and octopus I had ever seen. As I realized the three things I wanted to see the most, I just seen in one dive, I also remembered I was just at 118 feet. That's when the dive went from bad to worse. I was now sure I seen what I did because I was going to "DIE". As I was trying to suck the tank dry I had to stop my over breathing and calm myself down. (that was not an easy task) Now I did not spit my reg but I can see how panic, can end someone's life very quickly.
With all that said I did learn some very important lessons. I also would not put myself in that position again. I also would be the first to tell someone else not to put themselves in that position, so no need to comment on how stupid that was. However it I did put this up because I am hoping maybe it could save someone else form doing the same.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Panic is almost always caused by feeling air starved. That's part of the panic cycle.

And you say that panic is always caused by feeling air starved? Wrong, lots of students panic because they get water in their mask or up nose, etc. There are many reasons people panic, not ALL have to do with being air starved.

No, he said almost always caused...

Water in the face, up their nose, brain says "I can't get enough air" diver panics. Read the cycle again.

It's a perception of being air starved.

TwoBit

 

[northen diver]

Diving psychology




http://www.divepsych.com/UJ1Q03p040_044_qxd.pdf