hopefulist
Contributor
The prison isn't on Coiba any more.
Panama?? San Andres??
- Thread starter dbosullivan
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In the very beginning of the thread I made it clear that, at present, I am not taking public charters. So, as to my providing a service, maybe after Christmas, maybe not. There is a certain level of professionalism that I would like to maintain, and it may take longer before I feel that I'm ready. To infer that I am dishonest... I will not even legitimize that with a response.
I had a very successful dive charter business in Saint Augustine, Florida for many years. Several years back, I began diving Central America and was very pleased with my journeys. After diving Panama, I packed my bags and moved my whole company here. Yes, it was that good.
You appear to have been here during or right after Noriega. This was a very different country back then. This is a small country, I believe it has the land mass equivalent to South Carolina. Policies change quicker than in other places. There are no more shotgun toting security guards at the gas stations. Every bank still has them, just like in every other large city in every other country including the U.S. As to the matter of which neighborhood you visit. It is the same as in all cities in all nations. I lived in New York City, but not near harlem. I lived in Chicago, but not near the south side, I lived in Jacksonville, but not near the north side. Though, I would say that you have a much better chance of being involved in a drive by shooting in the U.S. And, you won't worry about your children when they go to school in the morning here.
30 years ago, I lived in Mexico, and I can tell you some crazy stories about the police and the bribe scheme there. But that was 30 years ago, I assume that things have changed. I can also tell you about the police corruption in Jacksonville, from just 3 years ago, and the stories would surprise you. I don't feel afraid of the police here, like I feel in the U.S. .... Now.... I've made a generalization about an entire country, just from my experiences in one town.... You would almost get the feeling that I have an agenda... But, that is not my intention, just my experience. I would also not use those experiences to describe a country.
I have a friend(American) that was side-swiped by a truck. He is still wrangling with this in court, but would be doing so in any country. It was not his fault, and he is not handing money to people and running and hiding. Though, in any foreign country, I would be cautious in any matter involving the legal authorities. I've heard bad stories about foreign prisons and prefer not to attempt to dispell those myths. Yes, Panama City has half the population of the country. One of the main reasons that I avoid it.
Yes, Coiba is the name of the largest island in the park. And yes, it is the one with the historic old prison on it. It is a treat to visit and next to the large runway that is on the island.
As to the AK remark... Most, if not all countries, have disputes with neighbors. In Panama it seems to be the Columbians; in Costa Rica, it seems to be the Nicaraguans; in the U.S., it seems to be the Mexicans... nuff said...
It is unfortunate that you had a bad experience in the past. And, I guarantee that you will have more bad experiences in the future. This is part of life. To portray those experiences onto the image of a country, that is very different now than it was then, could potentially rob someone of the scuba/travel experiences of a lifetime. I'm sure that is not your intention. At the present, I am enjoying this experience. If it ever gets bad, I will change whatever I need to, to guarantee me and my customers safety. Or, if I find better diving elsewhere, I may change and go there.
Oh... by the way... I recommend that you avoid the middle east for a little while :1poke:
I had a very successful dive charter business in Saint Augustine, Florida for many years. Several years back, I began diving Central America and was very pleased with my journeys. After diving Panama, I packed my bags and moved my whole company here. Yes, it was that good.
You appear to have been here during or right after Noriega. This was a very different country back then. This is a small country, I believe it has the land mass equivalent to South Carolina. Policies change quicker than in other places. There are no more shotgun toting security guards at the gas stations. Every bank still has them, just like in every other large city in every other country including the U.S. As to the matter of which neighborhood you visit. It is the same as in all cities in all nations. I lived in New York City, but not near harlem. I lived in Chicago, but not near the south side, I lived in Jacksonville, but not near the north side. Though, I would say that you have a much better chance of being involved in a drive by shooting in the U.S. And, you won't worry about your children when they go to school in the morning here.
30 years ago, I lived in Mexico, and I can tell you some crazy stories about the police and the bribe scheme there. But that was 30 years ago, I assume that things have changed. I can also tell you about the police corruption in Jacksonville, from just 3 years ago, and the stories would surprise you. I don't feel afraid of the police here, like I feel in the U.S. .... Now.... I've made a generalization about an entire country, just from my experiences in one town.... You would almost get the feeling that I have an agenda... But, that is not my intention, just my experience. I would also not use those experiences to describe a country.
I have a friend(American) that was side-swiped by a truck. He is still wrangling with this in court, but would be doing so in any country. It was not his fault, and he is not handing money to people and running and hiding. Though, in any foreign country, I would be cautious in any matter involving the legal authorities. I've heard bad stories about foreign prisons and prefer not to attempt to dispell those myths. Yes, Panama City has half the population of the country. One of the main reasons that I avoid it.
Yes, Coiba is the name of the largest island in the park. And yes, it is the one with the historic old prison on it. It is a treat to visit and next to the large runway that is on the island.
As to the AK remark... Most, if not all countries, have disputes with neighbors. In Panama it seems to be the Columbians; in Costa Rica, it seems to be the Nicaraguans; in the U.S., it seems to be the Mexicans... nuff said...
It is unfortunate that you had a bad experience in the past. And, I guarantee that you will have more bad experiences in the future. This is part of life. To portray those experiences onto the image of a country, that is very different now than it was then, could potentially rob someone of the scuba/travel experiences of a lifetime. I'm sure that is not your intention. At the present, I am enjoying this experience. If it ever gets bad, I will change whatever I need to, to guarantee me and my customers safety. Or, if I find better diving elsewhere, I may change and go there.
Oh... by the way... I recommend that you avoid the middle east for a little while :1poke:
Agent 47
Contributor
Oh..don't get me wrong. I had a great time diving there. It's where I got certified, and I liked it so much I logged around 80 dives the first year. I got out of the city and went up to the other coast at least every other weekend. I was there around 97-99 and there were a lot of issues, and a lot of fluff brochures by the ministry of tourism that we all got a good laugh out of, because they were so innacurate. I had my own traffic court experience in Panama. A girl hit me while I was sitting still at a stop sign. She hit me hard enough to knock my truck half way around the corner. The traffic cop had his arm around her while he wrote the report, and I wasn't allowed to get out of my car during that time. She didn't show up to court. I did. I was scolded by the judge for not speaking Spanish, and ordered to pay whatever she said it cost to fix her car. No receipt needed, she would call and tell me the price. That's my lingering impression of Panama. Despite all the good times I had down there, and all the friends I made, I'll never forget the corruption. In spite of that, I'd still love to come down there and do some more diving. I do, however, think that there are two sides to the coin and a lot of the advertising I've seen lately annoys me, because one side is glossed over and things down there are made to seem too perfect. As far as the threat of physical violence to your person, though, I might agree with you. You'd probably be more likely to get mugged here in Tampa. And that's coming from a guy who was stuck in a traffic jam in Chorera one morning in the middle of a shoot-out between police and a drug gang. But, that's what I get for cutting through Chorera to save a few minutes, instead of going around.
I will say, though, that I've never been into a bank anywhere else in the world where I saw a guard standing in the lobby with a shotgun. I've never been into a bank in New York or Chicago either, though, so I can't say. Someone help me out here.
My point is just that people don't get an accurate idea of what to expect in the city by reading the tourist advertising that's available. It's a lot of hype. Go to the state department website and read the reports there before visiting any foreign country. There's some good info. there that you won't find at the travel agent. (To tell you the truth, I have no idea what the state department is saying about any country in Central America these days. About the only countries I'm even remotely up to date on in that respect are Greece and Colombia.)
I do wish I'd gotten to dive Coiba while I was there. Several friends went, and really had a lot of good stuff to say about it. Another dive site....out of Portobelo...that's worth mentioning is Salmedinas Reef. Make sure to dive Salmedinas if you go to Portobelo. My log book has more dives on that site than any other single dive site I've been to. There are sites that you could probably say are better in a lot of different ways, but something about Salmedinas just kept drawing me back.
Actually...uncle sam has some pretty interesting job openings in the middle east right now, and it has been tempting me. The dangerous places seem to pay the best.
I will say, though, that I've never been into a bank anywhere else in the world where I saw a guard standing in the lobby with a shotgun. I've never been into a bank in New York or Chicago either, though, so I can't say. Someone help me out here.
My point is just that people don't get an accurate idea of what to expect in the city by reading the tourist advertising that's available. It's a lot of hype. Go to the state department website and read the reports there before visiting any foreign country. There's some good info. there that you won't find at the travel agent. (To tell you the truth, I have no idea what the state department is saying about any country in Central America these days. About the only countries I'm even remotely up to date on in that respect are Greece and Colombia.)
I do wish I'd gotten to dive Coiba while I was there. Several friends went, and really had a lot of good stuff to say about it. Another dive site....out of Portobelo...that's worth mentioning is Salmedinas Reef. Make sure to dive Salmedinas if you go to Portobelo. My log book has more dives on that site than any other single dive site I've been to. There are sites that you could probably say are better in a lot of different ways, but something about Salmedinas just kept drawing me back.
Actually...uncle sam has some pretty interesting job openings in the middle east right now, and it has been tempting me. The dangerous places seem to pay the best.
Agent 47
Contributor
So what do they have planned for Coiba with the prison closed? Will developers move in to some of it, or will it remain a secluded nature preserve? I bet there are plenty of people chomping at the bit on both sides of that one.
At first, the first president was proposing that. And, for a while it looked like it would be a giant resort island. Fortunately, the United Nations has designated it a "World Heritage Site". So, for now, it seems to be safe.
Lately all of the dive organizations in the country (all 9 of them) have gotten together (organized by the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute) and we've decided to institute some standards to build this tiny industry. This could be good or bad. I'm not a fan of government intervention or regulations. We'll see. But, at least it seems a step in the right direction
Lately all of the dive organizations in the country (all 9 of them) have gotten together (organized by the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute) and we've decided to institute some standards to build this tiny industry. This could be good or bad. I'm not a fan of government intervention or regulations. We'll see. But, at least it seems a step in the right direction
Agent 47
Contributor
That sounds like it has some potential...the dive operations getting together. Hopefully the powers that be will listen to what you guys have to say. I knew a lot of divers down there who really had their head in the right place. That's one of the things I miss.
Maybe you guys will have a shot at improving some of the less ecologically sound practices. One particular method of tropical fish collection (employed by non-divers) comes to mind. I guess more than anything, education is desperately needed.
On the Coiba thing, a resort was easy to imagine. On the other hand you have.....and I don't remember the name.....the island in Gatun Lake that is a nature preserve. That place was pretty strictly controlled back when I was there. Was really curious to hear which way Coiba would go.
Is ScubaPanama/ScubaPortobelo still around in any form? They were an SSI shop in Panama City, and also had a place up in Portobelo, a bit west of Portobelo Bay.
Maybe you guys will have a shot at improving some of the less ecologically sound practices. One particular method of tropical fish collection (employed by non-divers) comes to mind. I guess more than anything, education is desperately needed.
On the Coiba thing, a resort was easy to imagine. On the other hand you have.....and I don't remember the name.....the island in Gatun Lake that is a nature preserve. That place was pretty strictly controlled back when I was there. Was really curious to hear which way Coiba would go.
Is ScubaPanama/ScubaPortobelo still around in any form? They were an SSI shop in Panama City, and also had a place up in Portobelo, a bit west of Portobelo Bay.
Hopefully, the powers to be won't see this as an income opportunity. Tourism has taken off very large in Panama. Other than the revenue from the canal, Tourism is the number one income generation.
And, yes we all addressed a large group of issues, mostly related to the fishing practices. And, education was the answer to most of the questions. Don't know about the island in Gatun Lake. I don't get down there that often. There's a lot of work to finish to attempt to get this operation to a functional state. I tend to spend too much time with the "head to the grindstone".
ScubaPanama/ScubaPortobelo is still here. But, they've turned into a YMCA shop. And teach more swimming than anything else. Panama Divers bought the other operation in Portobelo (renamed twin oceans).
And, yes we all addressed a large group of issues, mostly related to the fishing practices. And, education was the answer to most of the questions. Don't know about the island in Gatun Lake. I don't get down there that often. There's a lot of work to finish to attempt to get this operation to a functional state. I tend to spend too much time with the "head to the grindstone".
ScubaPanama/ScubaPortobelo is still here. But, they've turned into a YMCA shop. And teach more swimming than anything else. Panama Divers bought the other operation in Portobelo (renamed twin oceans).
I used to dive around Coiba, when the prison was still there. Truly an amazing place when the water is nice.
And the traffic court was a major issue back then. But we have the same thing here in some places also.
Glad to see that people are trying. Hope to get back there with friends, one of these days.
And the traffic court was a major issue back then. But we have the same thing here in some places also.
Glad to see that people are trying. Hope to get back there with friends, one of these days.
Panama has crime problems like any other city. Stay out of the ghetto areas and you will be alright. There are beggars and window washers.... I just ignore them when I go down there.
I visit pretty much once a year. Some areas are safer than others of course.
I visit pretty much once a year. Some areas are safer than others of course.
See my comments regarding diving the Caribbean side of Panama here: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?p=1944258#post1944258
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