PADI vs SDI

[sweatfrog]

The quote offers nothing to support his position. Had he listed the skills left out of a PADI OW class that are required by some other agencies as his reasoning, he would be in a much better position to defend his opinion.

your post also offered nothing to show his statement isn't spot on. What about PADI's OW class do you believe refutes his position?

Let's take this one point at a time.
1. Drew Richardson has a Doctrate in Instructional Design.
2. Anyone can compare the OW materials between PADI and SDI and see that PADI has them beat, hands down.
3. PADI teaches the dive tables. I know some SDI Instructors who don't even know the tables.
4. Relating to #3 that makes a PADI Instructor better able to answer questions posed to him/her regarding a lot of what is being said on this thread.
5. Ask a lot of agency professionals where they got their first Instuctor card.
6. PADI changed the way classes were taught back in the 70's. It moved it's focus to more mainstream instruction and more people were getting certified. Without more people, we wouldn't even have computers available for diving. There would be no money in it for the manufacturers.
7. TDI was where SDI started, because the big money is in recreational diving, for the agencies. The more people Instructors certify, the more money the agencies make.

That's just off the top of my head. I certainly don't mean to steal anyone's thunder.

 

[DiverBizz]

In my opinion the instructor is the one who can make or break the reputation of an agency. My OW instructor would drill the skills and mandate perfection on everything in the water and out. Many people do not like his style of teaching for recreation diving but I really learned a great deal from him and would recommend him not matter what agency. I still remember things that he taught while I am diving. I have my PADI OW certification but also have taken courses with SDI. I take classes based on who is teaching the class not the agency. Thanks Rick H. (PADI) for being a great instructor.

 

[Walter]

1. Drew Richardson has a Doctrate in Instructional Design.

I'm glad for him, but the question was, "What about PADI's OW class do you believe refutes his position?" The position in this case saying PADI's classes have no quality. The fact he has such a degree would hopefully mean he can design a high quality class. It does not mean he has done so or if he has that he has put it into effect.

2. Anyone can compare the OW materials between PADI and SDI and see that PADI has them beat, hands down.

I've never seen SDI's materials, but the question is not about a comparison, merely what about PADI's class shows it has quality. I have seen PADI's materials. I haven't seen anything about them to indicate they are very good. What have you seen in them that I've missed?

3. PADI teaches the dive tables. I know some SDI Instructors who don't even know the tables.

Everyone except SDI teaches the tables. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of PADI.

4. Relating to #3 that makes a PADI Instructor better able to answer questions posed to him/her regarding a lot of what is being said on this thread.

Totally irrelevent to the question at hand.

5. Ask a lot of agency professionals where they got their first Instuctor card.

Also, Also, totally irrelevent to the question at hand.

6. PADI changed the way classes were taught back in the 70's. It moved it's focus to more mainstream instruction and more people were getting certified. Without more people, we wouldn't even have computers available for diving. There would be no money in it for the manufacturers.

They changed their classes to eliminate skills to make classes faster which reduced the quality of their classes. This is an argument against the quality of PADI classes. As for computers, I doubt it is true, but even if it is, it is Also, totally irrelevent to the question at hand.

7. TDI was where SDI started, because the big money is in recreational diving, for the agencies. The more people Instructors certify, the more money the agencies make.

Also, totally irrelevent to the question at hand.

So, what about PADI's OW class do you believe refutes his position?

 

[seaducer]

We can argue until we are blue in the face about what skills and acedemics should or should not be included in an OW course. There are excellent and terrible instructors in all agencies, the vast majority being in the middle. Were I to refute the position that PADI classes are not quality classes, I would suggest that the materials, and presentation style taught to OWSI by PADI are designed to convey information to people of all ages and backgrounds.

IMO it does this successfully, and THAT makes it a quality class.

The fact that people are not dying left and right from skill/knowledge deficits on vacations or what have you kind of makes the point that the classes don't teach enough a moot point. I think they should include more, but the stats say they include enough.

The purpose of an OW class is to introduce you to diving, the gear and special concerns related to life UW, not make you a super tech rebreather cave diving stud who can dive to 500 feet on an AL80 filled with amonia vapor.

I appreciate the thoughts of those who have argued their points with a level head. I do not get those who seem quite angry with PADI.

What gives? It is just an agency, why is this so personal for you?

 

[seaducer]

5. Ask a lot of agency professionals where they got their first Instuctor card.
.

Not a fair point IMO, as for one, PADI is the biggest and therfor has a bit of a corner on the market, and 2nd, if you want to make money, it makes sense to affiliate oneself with the largest share of the market, regardless of you individual views on the course or agency itself...

 

[Thadmn]

PADI= Pay Another Dollar In

 

[jbd]

5. Ask a lot of agency professionals where they got their first Instuctor card.

I got my first and only instructor card from NAUI for reasons that were important to me and me only. Other people have chose to get their instructor card from other agencies for reasons that were important to them and them only. None of this makes any agency any better than any other agency. It also doesn't automatically make any given instructor better than any other instructor. The point is logically irrelevent.

 

[jbd]

We can argue until we are blue in the face about what skills and acedemics should or should not be included in an OW course.

LOL!! and we have done just that for several years now I'm wonderiung if our faces are going to get any bluer

 

[sweatfrog]

I'm glad for him, but the question was, "What about PADI's OW class do you believe refutes his position?" The position in this case saying PADI's classes have no quality. The fact he has such a degree would hopefully mean he can design a high quality class. It does not mean he has done so or if he has that he has put it into effect.

Actually, this was the original statement. "Walter, I would not include "PADI" in any sentence together with the word "quality." I have read your articulate and prolific posts Walter and I know where you stand with PADI. For some of these people who post here, to just stir up the pot, is ludicrous. People can take anything said and turn it into what they want to hear. Present company excluded.

I've never seen SDI's materials, but the question is not about a comparison, merely what about PADI's class shows it has quality. I have seen PADI's materials. I haven't seen anything about them to indicate they are very good. What have you seen in them that I've missed?

This thread is about SDI versus PADI, so that's the two agencies that need to be addressed. Not the rest of the alphabet soup. The quality between those two agencies and the Instructors therein are where the focus. If you want to go outside of that, you should have mentioned it.

Everyone except SDI teaches the tables. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of PADI.

You're right, see my post above.

They changed their classes to eliminate skills to make classes faster which reduced the quality of their classes. This is an argument against the quality of PADI classes.

Now thats an issue that is debatable, but instead of writing a book about it, let's stay on point. PADI rewrote the OW class in a manner that would allow more people to become certified. Skills were changed, added or deleted as accidents dictated. The OW class is a work in progress and one thing that SDI did (good, bad or indifferent) was to bring in the online course. PADI and all of the other agencies have, or are trying to get on board with that notion. Well, maybe not the YMCA, but I don't know. The customer dictates a lot about whether you will continue teaching. Maybe not for the OW, but certainly con ed.

As for computers, I doubt it is true, but even if it is, it is Also, totally irrelevent to the question at hand.

Ok Walter, what was the progress of the YMCA certification before PADI. I doubt it has changed much, while PADI's ballooned up. It's hard to find a Y Instructor in this neck of the woods. I don't think diving would have progressed past the Deco Brain, had we not had more people diving.

Since PADI started certifing divers, the amount of divers have increased exponentially, while the amount of accidents has not changed much. Hmmm, lets see what that tells you about the quality of PADI instruction.

 

[nereas]

...Since PADI started certifing divers, the amount of divers have increased exponentially, while the amount of accidents has not changed much. Hmmm, lets see what that tells you about the quality of PADI instruction.

If you sign up at a local college for a logic class, and take it, then you would perhaps understand afterwards that PADI's multitude of certifications tells you absolutely nothing about its quality.

More relevant to PADI's multitude of certifications would be that they are fast. What does that tell you about the likely quality? (Once again, you may need to take the college class first, to infer correctly.)