PADI versus TDI and "E-learning"

[Brian42]

I just started out but I am interested in taking almost every PADI course (or equivalent) and progressing up to dive master and perhaps instructor including learning about deep technical diving.

I had not heard of TDI until I saw an advertisement for it here. I'm wondering about the benefits and drawbacks of getting certifications from two different certification agencies. How widely recognized is TDI? If I took the TDI courses are they transferable to the PADI program for example if I wanted to do a course that requires technical diving knowledge and I've passed an equivalent TDI course but not PADI?

I am particularly interest in doing as much "elearning" as possible because I have a busy work schedule and when I take a dive trip I want to spend every minute possible in the water not reading books or studying in the classroom. I have to say I'm a little bit disapointed in the pricing of the padi elearning programs, in fact I'd go so far as to say they are a ripoff. I pay them because I don't want to spend the time in the classroom but often times it is cheaper to NOT do the elearning. There is nothing in the elearning somebody couldn't learn from a $10 pdf/ebook but I suppose you cannot get the certification if you don't do PADI's online course. Honestly I would expect a significant discount for doing elearning but instead it works out to be the same or even a premium!

If there is another certification agency that is particularly strong in elearning, well recognized/accepted and prices their online courses more competitively I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks.

 

[DevonDiver]

TDI is a technical level division - comparable to the TecRec program that PADI runs. That's Advanced Nitrox/Tec40, Deco Procedures/Tec45, Extended Range/Tec50 etc...

There is also a recreational level division, SDI, which is comparable to the mainstream PADI diving courses (OW - AOW - Rescue etc).

I don't believe either TDI or TecRec offer Elearning at the moment - it's only available on certain recreational level diving courses.

PADI offer OW, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox and DM-theory via Elearning. I'm not sure what SDI offer online.

Elearning is controlled/authenticated, and included examinations. That makes it 'different' from just reading a book/pdf.

The cost of Elearning reflects the convenience it provides for the student. In most cases, completing theory via Elearning doesn't even get you a discount at the dive center, where you will finish off the course. It does save you time however, which some people do place a premium upon - especially if that is their vacation time freed from the classroom environment.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

TDI Nitrox is availble as e learning. Still requires time in the classroom though to analyze tanks and if done with some instructors they spend time going into more of the practical aspects. I took the e learning course for my instructor crossover and it was ok. I did find some errors and they corrected them within 48 hours. There are still some aspects that should be gone over with an instructor.

As for cost breaks for doing e learning, why? You are not paying for knowledge when you do e courses. All you are paying for is convenience. And if one thinks that it replaces the years of experience and study that an instructor brings to the table, just to get through faster they are sorely mistaken. A monkey can parrot the answers from a multiple choice course and get it correct given enough chances. It doesn't mean he understands the reasons for the answers or how they are applied.

If one cannot make the time for proper training they may want to consider another activity.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Brian42]

Elearning is controlled/authenticated, and included examinations. That makes it 'different' from just reading a book/pdf.
The cost of Elearning reflects the convenience it provides for the student. In most cases, completing theory via Elearning doesn't even get you a discount at the dive center, where you will finish off the course. It does save you time however, which some people do place a premium upon - especially if that is their vacation time freed from the classroom environment.

Well obviously you still have to take a test after reading a book - whether it's online or just a paper test when you go into the dive center which would take 15-30 minutes. And come on let's be honest - the elearning is not "controlled" you can easily cheat but there is no reason to cheat because the test is super easy and you can take it as many times as you want. Not only is the elearning not cheaper it's more expensive at the place I'm getting it from. That makes zero sense - the cost of delivering something online once it's been produced is virtually nill while hiring a person to teach live in person has a significant cost and it's not a one time investment that gets amortized over thousands of sales like an elearning program. PADI is being opportunitistic and making huge profits on the online course fees as compared to in class room stuff. The open water diving program is something you can easily learn from a book in a couple of hours and then get tested on in 15-20 minutes.

Anyway I'm getting off on a tagent here. What I really wanted to know is the benefit and drawback of doing some TDI courses (they do have elearnign: https://www.tdisdi.com/userportal/online_training/index.php?course=TDI) if I already have basic PADI certification? How widely recognized is TDI? Will PADI dive centers recognize it? If I have TDI certifications and I later want to do more advanced PADI stuff will they recognize those certifications or would I have to repeat the courses again as if I were a beginner?
Thanks.

---------- Post Merged at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:16 PM ----------

TDI Nitrox is availble as e learning. Still requires time in the classroom though to analyze tanks and if done with some instructors they spend time going into more of the practical aspects. I took the e learning course for my instructor crossover and it was ok. I did find some errors and they corrected them within 48 hours. There are still some aspects that should be gone over with an instructor.

As for cost breaks for doing e learning, why? You are not paying for knowledge when you do e courses. All you are paying for is convenience. And if one thinks that it replaces the years of experience and study that an instructor brings to the table, just to get through faster they are sorely mistaken. A monkey can parrot the answers from a multiple choice course and get it correct given enough chances. It doesn't mean he understands the reasons for the answers or how they are applied.

If one cannot make the time for proper training they may want to consider another activity.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Jim, I'm not suggesting that e-learning is of equivalent value than a real live instructor or that it is a replacement for one. Quite the opposite I'm saying it's of lower value. I certainly agree and believe that you cannot get a certification with elearning alone. However, I think elearning does have it's place. Clearly if you have read and absorbed all of the basics and can easily pass whatever written test is required (if any) when you walk intot he dive center - it will take less of the instructors time to get you up to speed. So all that in mind I would expect elearning to reflect the lower cost of online automated delivery of printed materials versus paying a real live instructor for his/her time - I was dismayed that isn't the case and even that I have had to pay a PREMIUM to do e-learning (ridiculous I feel!).

All that aside there isn't anything to be done about the price I suppose so my real question was reiterated above in my response to Devon Diver.

Thanks guys.

 

[tracydr]

SDI and PADI are both widely recognized. I've DM'd for dual certified instructors with my DM internship and there is very little difference in the skills taught at the OW level.
As far as e-learning. I'm old school. I was certified in 1996. We had a lot of classroom time where we were expected to have studied the book and done the knowledge reviews ahead of time.
Now, the student comes in, hands off a completed e-test and goes in the pool. I think there is something really missing in that method but who am I to say.
TDI is the technical division of SDI. You're probably interested in SDI classes at this point.

 

[DevonDiver]

How widely recognized is TDI? Will PADI dive centers recognize it?

It's global, no problem.

If I have TDI certifications and I later want to do more advanced PADI stuff will they recognize those certifications or would I have to repeat the courses again as if I were a beginner?

No, all courses have equivalencies. You don't need to repeat.

Here are the recreational level courses:

BSAC	PADI Equivalent
Ocean Diver or Club Diver	Open Water Diver
Sport Diver	Open Water Diver
Sport Diver with at least 20 logged dives	Advanced Open Water Diver
Dive Leader	Rescue Diver
Advanced Diver	Divemaster or IDC Candidate
Club Instructor	IDC Candidate
Open Water Instructor	IDC Candidate
Advanced Instructor	IDC Candidate
SSI	PADI Equivalent
SSI Open Water	Open Water Diver
SSI Advanced Open Water	Advanced Open Water
SSI Stress & Rescue Techniques	Rescue Diver
SSI Master Diver	Rescue Diver
SSI Dive Con	Divemaster
SSI Master Diver	Rescue Diver
SSI Open Water / Dive Con Instructor	IDC Candidate if instructor certified for 6 months
CMAS	PADI Equivalent
CMAS 1 Star Diver	Open Water Diver
CMAS 2 Star Diver (with verification of Night and Navigation dive)	Rescue Diver
CMAS 3 Star Diver	Divemaster or IDC Candidate
CMAS 1 Star Instructor	IDC Candidate
CMAS 2 Star Instructor	IDC Candidate
SSI	PADI Equivalent
SSI Open Water	Open Water Diver
SSI Advanced open Water	Advanced Open Water Diver
SSI Stress & Rescue Techniques	Rescue Diver
SSI Master Diver	Rescue Diver
SSI Dive Con	Divemaster
SSI O/W / Dive Con Instructor	IDC Candidate if instructor certified for 6 months.
NAUI	PADI Equivalent
NAUI Scuba Diver	Open Water Diver
Advanced Scuba Diver	Advanced Open Water Diver
NAUI Master Scuba Diver	Rescue Diver
NAUI Divemaster	Divemaster
Scuba Instructor	IDC Candidate
SAA	PADI Equivalent
Club Diver	Open Water Diver
Club Diver (with at least 20 dives and Experience in Deep and Navigation)	Advanced Open Water Diver
Dive Leader (with at least 20 logged dives)	Advanced Open Water Diver
Dive Leader (with Diver Rescue)	Rescue Diver
Dive Supervisor (with Diver Rescue)	Divemaster
Assistant and Club Instructor (with Diver Rescue)	IDC Candidate
SAA Regional Instructor	IDC Candidate

For the PADI technical levels, the courses tend to give descriptions of what skills/training/competencies are classified as equivalent. So, for example, to enroll on the Tec40 course, the diver must have:

*Certified as a PADI Enriched Air Diver and PADI Deep Diver or equivalent (for this program equivalency is proof of training in recreational deep diving 18 meters/60 feet to 40 meters/130 feet consisting of at least four dives and training in nitrogen narcosis considerations, contingency/emergency decompression, making safety stops and air supply management OR, have a minimum of 20 logged dives deeper than 30 meters/100 feet.)

As a rule of thumb:

Tec40 = Advanced Nitrox
Tec45 = Decompression Procedures
Tec50 = Extended Range

 

[TSandM]

In the technical arena, TDI is a well-recognized agency. But in the technical arena, who your INSTRUCTOR was, and what your experience level is, counts for a great deal more than what agency you took your class with. But, for example, places that want to see your cave card before letting your dive, like Ginnie Springs in FL and Dos Ojos in MX, recognize TDI cave cards.

PADI instructors CAN recognize non-PADI prerequisite classes, if they have confirmed that the class is fairly equivalent to the PADI one, and after doing a knowledge and skills evaluation (which, IMO, instructors ought to do with any student who is new to them).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I was a PADI DM when the e-learning came out. PADI dive centers and instructors were told that they should not lower their prices for classes that the e learning was an option for. In fact it was strongly suggested that they keep them the same. E learning is for convenience only. It was never intended to lower the cost to the student. In fact there are times it can as much as double it depending on the course.

And with me anyone who wants to finish an elearning course is still going to spend a considerable amount of time in the classroom anyway. I don't care that someone knows all the answers from the book. I want to know that they understand them as well. I have my own tests they will need to pass to be sure of that. Not all formal written but when I ask a question I expect them to give an intelligent explanation of why they are answering the way they are. "It says so in the book" doesn't count.

 

[Dave1w]

In Singapore, SDI is pretty strong and is a good option, with plenty of instructors who can carry out your pool and open water sections. TDI for the technical stuff is probably (at this point) more widely recognised than the equivalent PADI courses, and in the real world, no one has any problems really about doing courses with different agencies and having them recognised (although Andy's table is a little incorrect about the BSAS, SAA and CMAS bits

If you were super keen you could find decent BSAC training in Singapore, but it wouldn't fit in with your aim of getting the theory done quick and easily . From memory, the SDI Open Water and other E-Learning courses are a bit cheaper than the equivalent PADI ones and are at least as good.

Dave

 

[DevonDiver]

...although Andy's table is a little incorrect about the BSAS, SAA and CMAS bits

The table was 'lifted' from a PADI IDC center website. It's correct from the PADI perspective... what they accept as equivalencies crossing into PADI (which is what the OP asked about).

It isn't meant to represent equivalency of training - just cross-over. It's looking at whether the alternative agency courses cover the elements of the equivalent PADI course - which is why there is some disparity between levels. Most noticeable is that fact that PADI don't accept any 'Pro' qualifications above Divemaster - everyone has to the IDC and IE.