PADI TecRec

[Walter]

BLT,

When you are certified you should be qualified to dive without supervision. In my opinion, most newly certified divers are not adequately trained to dive safely without supervision. OTOH, your c-card will be accepted world wide, so there are no problems on that score. I recommend every potential diver choose their instructor and class very carefully. There is a great deal of information available about how to choose a class at http://diverlink.com/newdiver/ Good luck in your selection process.

WWW™

 

[The Chairman]

Hey Hocky, BLT, ID, Walter, et al...

The biggest problem I have with the discussion to date is that no one involved in the discussion has gone and taken PADI's course. Now, the original question was actually posed to someone who HAS taken the course and who COULD give us meaningful insight as to how good it may or may not be. One person has at least had the decency to form his opinion based on the course syllabus, and he feels pretty positive about it. But, overall, there are no real INFORMED opinions on what the course does for any particular diver.

I find this Agency bashing specious at best. Just as a diver "evolves" from one level of proficiency to another, so an agency can do the same. This is a case of the haves denying a program to the have nots, just because they are the new kids on the block. If PADI has done their homework then they may have a GREAT course. But, as they say, the proof is in the pudding, but unless you taste the pudding, you can never know for sure. At that point its all conjecture... and not "objective" at all... just plain and simple conjecture. You are guessing. How many of you will dive with anything on a SWAG??? (Scientific Wild Ass Guess). Then how can you so blithely condemn an agency's efforts on one?

I am a PADI Dive master, and proud of it. I have found my training to great overall, with the only "weak" points being the human ones. People point to Florida as if we are a bunch of raving lunatics... get real. We have far more cave diving (and deaths by Techies) and tourists than the rest of the country combined. In light of that, I think our record is pretty blameless. Are there idiots? Sure! (Some of you are probably putting me in that category) But don't blame PADI or NAUI or whatever agency for people breaking the rules. I applaud PADI for moving cautiously in these areas. They want to be sure they are ready and that their instructors are ready as well. No one in my area that I know of is currently capable of teaching this class. But when they are, I will take it just to find out HOW safe it is. Lemme have some of that pudding, then I can have an informed opinion.

On a final note, some of the agency bashing is having a detrimental effect on some of the newer divers. You are undermining the confidence they need to be able to handle the underwater contingencies they were trained for. I hope they also read this and realize that there is nothing wrong with PADI or the way they have been taught. Your skills and your C-Card are valid most everywhere in the world. Dive within your limits and training and enjoy our world underwater.

Rant switch deactivated... Have a nice day!

 

[Walter]

.........one of my points. "I get accused of PADI bashing just about every time I mention that agency."

Now for your points....

"Now, the original question was actually posed to someone who HAS taken the course and who COULD give us meaningful insight as to how good it may or may not be."

True, but I have not responded to the original question. I have participated in the resulting discussion at the request of someone involved. "(Walter, where are you?)"

"I find this Agency bashing specious at best."

Perhaps I am only superficially fair, but that is not my intention. I always strive to be objective in my presentation of facts. I am always subjective in my interpretation of those facts and I believe that is the right way for me to be.

"Just as a diver "evolves" from one level of proficiency to another, so an agency can do the same."

I agree completely. PADI has been evolving by lowering standards since the mid 70's.

"This is a case of the haves denying a program to the have nots, just because they are the new kids on the block."

Nope. No one has denied PADI anything. PADI has introduced a "tec" program. People are expressing opinions, many of them negetive, about PADI having a "tec" program, but they still have it and, IMHO, it will soon be the largest "tec" program in the world.

"At that point its all conjecture... and not "objective" at all... just plain and simple conjecture. You are guessing."

Correct. No arguments there.

"How many of you will dive with anything on a SWAG??? (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)."

I don't understand what you are asking. Please elucidate.

"I am a PADI Dive master, and proud of it."

You should be proud of yourself and of your accomplishments. My personal philosophy conflicts with PADI's corporate philosophy therefore I would never be able to associate myself with them in good conscience.

"I have found my training to great overall"

Is this because of PADI standards or because of an instructor's personal standards? Have you ever compared it with other training?

"People point to Florida as if we are a bunch of raving lunatics..."

I don't see your point, but perhaps some of us in Florida are........

"On a final note, some of the agency bashing is having a detrimental effect on some of the newer divers."

I disagree. If it makes people more careful in their selection process when it comes to choosing a class it's having a very positive effect.

"You are undermining the confidence they need to be able to handle the underwater contingencies they were trained for."

I'm afraid of two things; the contingencies most aren't being trained for and confidence in abilities they never aquired.

"I hope they also read this and realize that there is nothing wrong with PADI or the way they have been taught."

This looks like opinion being presented as fact. I have the opposite opinion.

"Your skills and your C-Card are valid most everywhere in the world."

True. Unfortunately most don't have adequate skills when they've completed their class despite having the C-card.

"Dive within your limits and training and enjoy our world underwater."

Once again, we agree.

WWW™

 

[The Chairman]

Hey Walter,

Actually I had very little (if anything) to take issue with you on. I am truly sorry that I included your name in the "to" portion of my post as that it was not my intent to put you on the spot. You stated your opinions as just that, and while I did disagree with some of your conclusions, I truly believe that you are not merely writing to just make yourself heard. So many want to tear down others just to prove themselves (or their agency) to be special. You have always impressed me as someone who has actually tried to be unbiased. I did not even remotely want to imply that you were guilty of PADI bashing.

After having gone through the PADI courses, and seeing first hand how several PADI instructors conduct themselves, I cannot help but be satisfied with the results. My continuing association with PADI has been nothing but a win/win affair. One that I will continue with.

I heartily agree with you that the instructor makes the course, but I feel strongly that PADI somehow made these people into good instructors. I do see that early positive rewards for doing things right as good for the sport, and I also want to make allowances to let the casual diver be just that. It's their choice. I would have probably been content with my OW or even an AOW, if it weren't for the fact that my family has been certified as well. It was not just my butt on the line anymore, and I would NEVER presume to rely on anyone (not even you, my friend) to provide rescue and help for them. Its part of my job in being "Dad". The other certs came from a deep desire to not be caught with my bubbles down when it came to the ones I love. Go figure.

I guess it again comes down to my main point in that rant of mine... I would really like to hear from someone who has actually taken the course, then to hear about how it can't be good just because it is a PADI course. I was a Automotive Technician way before my current field (ASE Master Certified too). My concept of what a good tool is was on the order of Snap On, or Matco... and I had the ultimate scorn for "Crapsman" tools. You know... Craftsman has changed quite a bit. I now like some (no- not all) of their tools. I now have to examine each of their tools to see if they are high quality... not the lifetime warranty... but its ability to turn the $%*&#*&% fastener that has congealed to itself. Heck, I even own a few "Crapsman" tools now. Did MY values change??? Nope, theirs did.

So now PADI has added a couple of specialties... and they do hope to make money on them- its their business after all. I want to hear from someone first hand about how they think the course is. Again, the only "informed" opinion about the new certs has been someone with access to the syllabus. So, until I hear a first hand endorsement or rejection, I am going to keep an open mind. I hope to get a look at the syllabus this week. That will probably help considerably. I like how PADI seems cautious to enter this field. They still defer much of the "tech" training to others. Maybe they want to take small measured steps, rather than to go blindly into the void.

As an aside... after much soul searching, I think I owe it to myself to also try classes from some other agencies. I do hope to find a good Advanced Nitrox class, and perhaps that will be the one. I also have been asked to participate in a cavern class and ultimately a cave diving class. None of these are PADI sponsored. Maybe then I will see things your way... or maybe I will feel the same way I feel now. Time will tell, but I will see some of the differences and/or similarities first hand. Then I will have an informed opinion.

 

[Hocky]

Hi Walter, NetDoc

Lets agree to disagree and as NetDoc has said reserve coment until someone has actually done the course and therefore has a valid opinion. Evereyone has an opinion on differing agencies and this is one topic that we will never get to the bottom of.

I concur with NetDoc re new divers reading this and becoming dishartened and if you are a new diver reading this please don't be dishartened. PADI are good at what they do, and what they do is train people for recreational diving. Before you do a course have a chat to your Instructor, ask questions and then ask more questions, and if after spending whatever amount of time with him/her you don't feel comfortable, then walk away.

Find an Instructor you like, an Instructor who is prepared to put the time into training you and more importantly an Instructor who actually loves diving. There are Instructors out there that treat diving as a 9 to 5 job (thankfully they are far and few between)but its not and you don't want one of those teaching you.

Finally, when you get that C-card pat yourself on the back because you have acomplished something very special. But don't let it stop there, you are still learning, and the only way you gain more confidence is by diving as often as you can. The great thing about the diving fraternity is that there are always people diving, and most divers will be happy for you and you buddy to tag along. Then there are clubs and shops that organise dives all the time, its just a question of you putting the time and effort in.

But I digress....guys thanks for the input, and when someone actually does the PADI Deep Tec Course I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Regards

Hocky

 

[scubazen]

Hi Hocky,
I will start to teach the class next month in Florida. I think it is a great course. As always, PADI came up with great educational product that you can be sure will be use by instructors from other agency for their own classes.
It is 10 days course, very challenging and complete.
Basically, you have to read the book, complete the knowledge review (standard) and take the class.
The classes consist of:
6-knowledge session
8 Practical applications
12 training dives (start at 10m/30ft to a max of 50m/165ft)
The exam takes three hours and you must have a passing score of 80%.
Prerequisites for the Tec Deep diver are:
PADI AOWD or equivalent
PADI Rescue Dive or equivalent
18 years old
PADI Enriched Air Diver or equivalent
PADI Deep Diver or equivalent
100 logged dives of which at least:
20 with Eanx
25 deeper than 18m/60ft
15 deeper than 30m/100ft
There is no guarantee one will succeed in the course. There are a lot of exercises to be performed and repeated. The task load is very high.
What we are talking about here is being able to make stage decompression(max two stage tanks during the course) dives to a max depth of 50m.
To give you an example, the ratio instructor/student on the last four dives is 2:1 (between 27m and 50m)
There are a lot of wrecks around the world in the 50m-depth range.
To give you an idea of prices, here in Florida, some of the dive operators organize Tec Dives. The cost is around $60-$75 for the boat trip.
The TecRec course cost $1600. It is pricey and not for everyone. You are not going to see a lot of people in those classes.
I will give you a feedback when the class is over
Do you have any idea how much is the course in Australia?
Philippe

 

[Hocky]

Hi Philippe

Thanks for the input. I was booked in to do the TecRec Instructors course but unfortunately it was cancelled. The cost of the 10 day course here is A$1,250.

Thats a lot cheaper than it is in the U.S and I have to admit I am surprised by that.

Sounds like an interesting course, please let me know how it works out.

Thanks

Hocky

 

[DiveTub]

Ok don’t be shy now, no one will bite your head off, has anyone completed any of the PADI Tec Rec Courses yet?

Comments on the course, its structure and how you enjoyed it, what you thought was good on the course and anything you felt was lacking

If you don’t have anything constructive to say, then don’t say anything at all!!

 

[Jonathan]

I've been wondering the same thing. Some friends of mine started it in the UK about 15 months but I'm not sure they actually did more than 4 dives last year.

I guess that's what love does to you - though they are both divers!!

Jonathan

 

[UDTMaster]

Hello

I finished my PADI Tec Reck deep. This course was fantastic, that materials are well organised and easlly understood. I can very shortly in the near future see PADI coming out with a Trimix program if they can find the instructors.

UDTMaster