PADI responded to their OW swim requirement...

[SparticleBrane]

Ok, strenous, no doubt. But, in all seriousness, you don't really think this should be required for the generic recreational diver, do you?

Yes, I do believe something along those lines should be required for a normal recreational diver. I have no apologies for my position--it's mine and I stand behind it. Just about anyone should be able to do a circuit swim like I described with a little bit of pacing and stamina.
Not all of it is about being comfortable in the water and seeing how long you can swim--part of it is about teaching someone to pace themselves and to slow down when things get rough. See my sig line for more details.
As an example, you can usually tell with decent accuracy who's going to finish first on the 450-yard swim within the first lap or so. If the time limit is 10 minutes, then you should average (max) ~1:06 per lap, preferably ~1min/lap just to stay on the safe side. Unless someone is a competitive swimmer, if they start off at 30 seconds/lap they'll generally end up at 2+minutes per lap towards the end and they'll be lucky to finish. The person who paces themselves at the beginning is the eventual winner (not that it's a race) and won't be as exhausted. People need to learn to slow down on scuba...

 

[SparticleBrane]

And SparticleBrane, I don't know the NAUI standards, but I'm betting that you are exceeding it. Would you care to outline how your test compares to the standard?

To be quite honest I don't know the NAUI standard for it either, mainly because I know the test exceeds it and that's all I need to know Technically, the course is a university scuba course that happens to certify through NAUI.

 

[boomer68]

Some instructors do it by the book. My experience last year in my OW class - one student touched the side of the pool during the swim test and our instructor stopped him and he had to start all over. If I remember correctly, he never was able to complete the swim test successfully and never completed the course.

 

[boomer68]

BY the way my instructor was PADI

 

[OHGoDive]

Yes, I do believe something along those lines should be required for a normal recreational diver. I have no apologies for my position--it's mine and I stand behind it. Just about anyone should be able to do a circuit swim like I described with a little bit of pacing and stamina.
Not all of it is about being comfortable in the water and seeing how long you can swim--part of it is about teaching someone to pace themselves and to slow down when things get rough. See my sig line for more details.
As an example, you can usually tell with decent accuracy who's going to finish first on the 450-yard swim within the first lap or so. If the time limit is 10 minutes, then you should average (max) ~1:06 per lap, preferably ~1min/lap just to stay on the safe side. Unless someone is a competitive swimmer, if they start off at 30 seconds/lap they'll generally end up at 2+minutes per lap towards the end and they'll be lucky to finish. The person who paces themselves at the beginning is the eventual winner (not that it's a race) and won't be as exhausted. People need to learn to slow down on scuba...

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinions. Of course, you are.

But, you're making a lot of assumptions about the average joe/jane when it come to swimming. Most adults have no clue how far 450 yards in a pool is, let alone how to pace themselves to :30 laps. They do not have good form, and many have never had formal swim lessons. They don't breathe well, and they are not at peak fitness.

I agree that most adults who have some swimming capability can be trained to pace themselves properly, go slow, get a good rhythm, etc. but, not on their first pool session.

So, it seems that what you are advocating is that people be trained to be proficient swimmers in order to be trained as divers. I'm ok with that, I just don't agree with it for purely recreational divers.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

To be quite honest I don't know the NAUI standard for it either, mainly because I know the test exceeds it and that's all I need to know

That explains a lot. Thanks.

 

[Charlie99]

Yes, I do believe something along those lines should be required for a normal recreational diver. I have no apologies for my position--it's mine and I stand behind it. .......As an example, you can usually tell with decent accuracy who's going to finish first on the 450-yard swim within the first lap or so. ...

I'd love to be able to pop into a time machine and find out if this is still your attitude 40 years down the road, when you are 61 rather than 21.

These are MINIMUM standards guys. In that context, treading water for 10 minutes, and then either swimming 200 yards unassisted or 300 yards with mask/fin/snorkel seems to be a reasonable way of weeding out those that shouldn't be getting certified for diving.

 

[Walter]

Until a few years ago, NAUI's swim requirement included a 225 yd swim. That was changed to X number (I don't have the new standard) of strokes showing competence in swimming or words to that effect. Many NAUI instructors still use the 225 yds, but that is not required by NAUI.

 

[SparticleBrane]

That explains a lot. Thanks.

?? What's that supposed to mean? Hopefully nothing bad.

I'm not an instructor...so yeah, I don't know the NAUI standard.
All the university standards we have are above and beyond basic NAUI standards. I'm not trying to cock an attitude or anything...but just stating facts. Thus, I'm not worried about meeting the NAUI standards, because as long as we meet the university standards we're good to go.

Charlie99, ironically enough our course director is getting up there in age. Not quite into his 60s yet, but I know he can easily complete the skills I mentioned.

 

[friscuba]

Then give them absolute guidelines that are clear to the students in the course material. Mine are 450 yds swimming in 14 mins or less prior to entry into the class, 900 yds in freediving gear in 20 mins or less prior to going on scuba, and a 350 yd skill based circuit swim in 12 mins or less prior to course completion. People can float or tread all they want on their own time.

I'll read further into the thread, but I saw this and had to comment. Do you actually require your OW students to be able to meet these specific swims before certification? I suspect with at least a couple agencies, that would be a violation of standards in itself. I can see suggesting it would be wise to be able to do those things, but I know at least an agency or two (likely more) frown on making mandatory skill tests above and beyond their base requirements.