padi qualification by aquadives - ambergris

[Ralph Capeling]

Clearly the training appears to be badly done and should be reviewed by PADI. While Peter has indicated he will contact PADI, it is better if Sharky does that himself.
Regarding PADI materials, there is no duty paid on the manuals and I have never paid as much as 50% duty on anything. We bring them in by mail which saves having to deal with customs and keep a stock at Splash Dive Center. As Peter indicates, sometimes sell them to other dive shops who do not keep them in stock.
Regarding PADI, you can become a PADI dive center or resort, a PADI dive center you need to meet some minimum standards. You can progress to 5 star by meeting additional criteria. I do not think PADI does regular inspections based on Sharky's recent experience.

 

[Ralph Capeling]

I mispoke. Peter said he cannot contact PADI and it is clearly the responsibility of Sharky.

 

[peterbj7]

Point of detail Ralph (and Gaz). Customs here is unpredictable, and half the time they don't know their own rules. I have the paperwork filed away somewhere where PADI teaching materials WERE assessed to duty. I challenged it and was told the only alternative was to forfeit the goods. The agent I used (I forget who it was, but I find them all equally incompetent) was of no help. I paid.

I didn't indicate I would contact PADI, though I do hope they come across this thread. Only the student can report it to PADI.

 

[sharky63]

How much of your dealings once the course was agreed upon were with AquaDives management and how many just with your instructor? Because management well know how the course should be conducted, and I have seen it being conducted apparently correctly there. It seems to me they have placed a lot of unwarranted faith in an incompetent instructor, who should be stopped before he kills someone. As you are already an instructor in a potentially dangerous sport you must understand this. PLEASE report this matter with no further delay. No-one else can report it - I can't despite what you have said as I was not involved - but it really needs to be investigated, and urgently.

After a short talk with the owner I paid $350. The owner was present at the final exam. I didn't have a clue about the contents of the exam ( I mean: what I had to expect until I got the list of multiple choice questions before me), but it was pretty easy.
Although it's certainly not done in the way a "5 star" paddy course should proceed, I'm still confident that I can dive in a secure way and have enough knowledge for the standard fun dives one normally makes in these areas. I know where my limits in experience and knowledge are and will work on that the coming months in my own country.
I don't know what happens when I report this to paddy. I still need to receive my paddy card... Doing the whole course again costs money, but I will learn nothing new. Don't know how such a report will work out.

 

[peterbj7]

Please think of others. You are a competent outdoor sports person, and were able readily, possibly even unconsciously, to compensate for the deficiencies of the course. Many other students don't start from there, and would end up in the worst possible position - with a dive card but without the basic knowledge to use it safely. This is precisely why PADI courses are laid out as they are, so they work for everyone.

As I said initially, all you need to do is write to PADI QA and they will guide through what they want of you. They will impose on you as little as possible, beyond getting the basic facts of what actually happened. Thereafter it's between them and the instructor/operator.

Do you know for sure your certification card is on its way? What you said about the procedure followed didn't give me that confidence. How long ago did this all happen? Three weeks is the longest I have ever known anyone have to wait, though I suppose the international dimension might add a few extra days. I presume you're now back home and gave that address for the card to be sent to?

 

[sharky63]

I'm registered in the paddy database with help from the diveshop in playa del carmen before I made several dives after the course with them. Don't know what they actually did, but they phoned with several people (including paddy I understood) and afterwards I got the temporary printout from the database. I suppose a card will be sent after entry in this database, right?. But with holidays etc. it can take perhaps much more than 3 weeks.
I will write to qa. Final outcome will be posted here, although I don't want to put personal bashing here.
Thanks. Interesting and responsive forum. Good source for future dives.

 

[peterbj7]

Good lad.

 

[calicant]

I sympathize that learning the theory in short time is not easy and neither is rough surf (I soon learned to keep the regulator and mask on until seated on the boat). I found it easier to learn the theory after I returned home (and not in a tropical location!). I ordered our own copy of the PADI manual from amazon.com.

Perhaps the most important understanding we left with after the course was that we knew a tiny fraction of what was required to dive safely. In the fraction were certain important points like, equalize your ears, breathe all the time - don't hold breath while ascending, stay close to the DM and don't dive without one, read your pressure gauge frequently, don't dive too deep, don't take off your flippers away from the boat, know to use your equipment before jumping in and chew your lunch really well. Maybe I will monitor time on the next trip but it will be with a DM who will hopefully keep us safe while we continue to learn.

What I liked most was learning by observing then performing the gestures displayed to us by our Instructor - who obviously couldn't speak to us underwater. We began to appreciate breathing and buoyancy and body posture while moving along the reefs. Learning by gesture is quite unusual in our language dominated world of textbooks and bullet points.

 

[Storm]

I tried to find exact prerequisites for an open water course, padi quality rules for padi certification, but could not find them. Anybody a link?

Well it appears that no one has answered your question so I will. The World Recreational Scuba Training Council (of witch PADI is a signatory) sets out standards (if that word could be used loosely) and curriculum for open water, advanced open water as well as rescue, and DM and DI courses.

Don't know how such a report will work out.

Don't get your hopes up, the course standards were industry self-developed and ratified, with sitting members comprising of the very groups that the standards are supposed to apply to, so it’s a "fox guarding the hen house" situation. Here’s the link. WRSTC :: World Recreational Scuba Training Council

Now before those who are in the industry take my distain for the WRSTC personally, let me give you all the background. Back when I was first certified, I was a real gung ho diver wannabe. So in true keeping with the stupidity (perhaps arrogance would be a better word) that ruled me at the time, I convinced my wife that we should fast track straight from OW to AOW in matter of weeks. We went straight from our OW cert dives to our AOW cert dives; a week after getting our OW (A grand total of 5 open water dives under our belt). It almost cost me my life, set me back a year in my dive training/confidence, but opened my eyes to just how easily I fell into the “you don’t really know just little you know and by not knowing you really can’t formulate the proper questions” trap

It took a few mentors from the local cave diving group (and a year or so of practice dives) for me to fully realize just how minimalistic some agencies use in their approach to dive training. Since that time I have seen some things at vacation spots that leave me shaking my head in wonder, and shock. -- Twelve years olds with no concept of buoyancy control being towed down by their SPG to 110 feet; of course the rationale said to me when I challenged this was “they were under direct supervision of a DI) ummm okay…sure..whatever…just better hope the DI doesn’t have a catastrophic failure with a panicky kid in tow at crushing depth.

Anyway, do not be surprised with things like two day resort courses. They are allowed under the “loose interpretation” of the WRSTC standards and PADI follows those standards. I’m hopeful that some sort of questioning would happen, but after seegin the results my incident (an OOW at 100 feet in cold, murky, current ripped water, due in part to the DI’s inexperience, and my “not knowing” lead me into a “trust me dive” for my 9th supervised dive and almost ended with me widowing my wife), and my “complaint” to PADI, I’ll stick to rule one in diving and won’t be holding my breathe awaiting a answer. My “incident” happened four years, and 60 dives ago, and I’m still waiting for their response.

Although it's certainly not done in the way a "5 star" paddy course should proceed, I'm still confident that I can dive in a secure way and have enough knowledge for the standard fun dives one normally makes in these areas.

Just take the time, now that you are certified, to find some local divers (if you can find some technical divers, all the better) and mentor with them for a few dozen dives…you’ll see what I mean. There are a few things the WRSTC course curriculum omits (these are not “safety” related per se but fairly important skills needed to progress as a safe diver.) that you won’t really get from most WRSTC signatory agencies and those skills, can be readily learned through mentoring.


Peace and safe dives.