PADI or SSI for additional training?

[alanbarnes]

Hi everybody,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Seems like this issue gets addressed quite a bit here, but I have some fairly specific twists on the typical request. Apologies in advance if it's repetitive.

I have PADI and SSI OWD certifications. My LDS is SSI, and my preferred (very non-local) instructor is PADI. A few years ago I did a referral course and got both cards. Dunno if I was supposed to, but they showed up in the mail and I didn't complain. I also have two SSI specialty certifications from my LDS: Perfect Buoyancy and EAN. I don't have any PADI specialties.

I've done 60+ dives, including dozens of boat dives and drift dives, a handful of wreck dives and deep(ish) (25-30m) dives, and a couple of night dives. But I haven't done specialty certification courses for any of those things.

My understanding is that if I complete ***any*** two additional specialty courses SSI will automatically give me an AOW certification. Is that correct? Even if they're strictly classroom-based? I know the PADI AOW requires a deep dive and a navigation dive, but those don't seem to be as in-depth as the respective SSI certifications.

I may want to get a rescue certification (PADI Rescue Diver / SSI Stress & Rescue) at some point, because that seems like a practical set of skills to acquire, and I'm not going to pick them up diving for fun. In the meantime, the conventional wisdom seems to be that having AOW is useful because some dive operators sometimes require it, especially for deeper diving. But if I have an SSI AOW without having gotten a Deep Water Diver certificate, why would that matter? Ditto if I get the Deep Water Diver cert but am one specialty cert short of AOW.

More to the point, what's the best way forward from here? Take SSI Deep Water and Navigation specialty courses just because they're a good idea, then collect the AOW as a matter of course? Do a couple of drift dives off a boat with an SSI shop instead of going out with the operation I usually use just to get the cert? Get the PADI e-learning materials and have my favorite instructor do the OAW certification while we're doing dives we'd be doing anyway?

TIA for any advice.

 

[tursiops]

Why do you have both PADI and SSI OW certs?
Your questions are confusing because of he terminology you are using.

• AOW is a PADI certification level; it requires 5 dives, each is (usually) the first dive of a specialty diver course, with Deep and Navigation being mandatory.
• SSI Advanced Adventurer is the closest SSI equivalent. The five SSI dives must be from diving specialties, so non-diving subjects like Ecology do not count toward Adv Adventurer. Note that neither deep nor navigation are required for Advanced Adventurer, so if a dive operator requires "AOW" for you to be on their boat, then SSI Advanced Adventurer may not be sufficient.
• SSI does have an Advanced Open Water REcognition Card, which requires 4 full specialty program and 24 dives. (Two of those specialties may be from another agency.) Again, for SSI AOW neither Deep nor Navigation are required, so the SSI AOW Recognition may not suffice to get you on a dive boat that is going to (say) a 90-ft wreck. In any case, it is a bad idea to jump into deep diving with no additional training or experience beyond OW stuff.

If you want to take PADI Deep, PADI AOW (or PADI Adventure Diver, i.e. just 3 dives of the 5 needed for AOW) is a prereq.
There is no such prereq for SSI Deep.

If you want to take PADI Rescue, the Navigation dive from AOW is a prereq.
SSI Stress and Rescue has no such prereq.

Here is SSI's equivalence chart, which leaves out some of the niceties like whether Advanced Adventure includes any Deep or Navigation training.

 

[rick00001967]

you seem to have a good grasp of how it works. i agree about taking the ssi nav and deep to get your ssi aow. that should provide more in depth training on both those subjects, rather than just doing the required two dives with padi.
the only reason i would see to decide to follow padi now instead of ssi is if you think you may want to achieve a pro level cert with padi someday.
just my 2cents

 

[alanbarnes]

@rick00001967: No interest in pro certification (although having a DM card might earn some free ride-alongs). My only reason for any interest in PADI is the instructor who certified me (Course Director, retired S&R, 20k dives, fantastic diver, fantastic person, getting to be friends). If I'm going to do a rescue cert I'd be inclined to go with guy who has actual experience doing rescues.

@tursiops: Thanks for the response; sorry for the confusion. As mentioned, I have no idea why I have both PADI and SSI OW certs. Like I said, I did the OW referral course and both cards came in the mail. It's probably irrelevant, except to say I'm in both systems.

I do understand that the PADI and SSI AOW certs are not equivalent. But according to the Internet, some dive operators won't take you out unless you have an AOW certification; they just don't say which AOW certification? PADI makes more sense in the context of deeper dives, but I can't find anything that specifies that. If that's the case, would these places take an SSI Deep Diver cert instead?

Good to know that SSI requires diving specialties for the AA. Does that apply to AOW as well? If so, that leads to the next question: which specialties count? More to the point, are the certs I already have (Perfect Buoyancy and EAN) on that list?

The reason I posted is that it seems like I might be at a bit of a decision point - PADI, SSI, or both? PADI materials cost more (sometimes a lot more), and I can drive to my local SSI shop in 5 minutes. If I need to pick one or the other I'd rather know that now than figure out a year from now that I should've made the decision a year ago.

 

[lowwall]

If it were me, I'd do Advanced Adventurer or AOW with your local SSI shop and then Rescue with your PADI friend. Check with the PADI instructor before starting anything to make sure you get any Rescue prerequisites included in your Advanced course.

FWIW, anything is possible, but I've never heard of an op that required AOW not accepting the equivalent from other organizations. If there is such a thing, I'd rather dive with their less nitpicky competitors anyway.

 

[tursiops]

Whether your cert is acceptable to a dive operator may depend on their insurance policy that is probably driving the issue. If it says "PADI AOW," then that is it. If it says "PADI AOW or equivalent," you can argue your AOW is sufficient. If it says "Advanced certification showing some deep training beyond 60 ft" then your SSI AOW or AA won't cut it.
To avoid disappointment, do the PADI AOW with your PADI Instructor you like, then fill in gaps in your training however you want.
The cheapest, fastest, easiest way is not always the best way.

 

[MarkA]

Whether your cert is acceptable to a dive operator may depend on their insurance policy that is probably driving the issue. If it says "PADI AOW," then that is it. If it says "PADI AOW or equivalent," you can argue your AOW is sufficient. If it says "Advanced certification showing some deep training beyond 60 ft" then your SSI AOW or AA won't cut it.
To avoid disappointment, do the PADI AOW with your PADI Instructor you like, then fill in gaps in your training however you want.
The cheapest, fastest, easiest way is not always the best way.

Are insurance policy’s being issued that say “PADI AOW” with no alternatives allowed?

 

[lowwall]

Whether your cert is acceptable to a dive operator may depend on their insurance policy that is probably driving the issue. If it says "PADI AOW," then that is it. If it says "PADI AOW or equivalent," you can argue your AOW is sufficient. If it says "Advanced certification showing some deep training beyond 60 ft" then your SSI AOW or AA won't cut it.
To avoid disappointment, do the PADI AOW with your PADI Instructor you like, then fill in gaps in your training however you want.
The cheapest, fastest, easiest way is not always the best way.

Strawman? The same would be true if you substituted the name of any other certification agency for PADI. Are you aware of any dive operator actually doing this?

I have heard of French operators refusing to accept anything except CMAS credentials, but nothing similar amongst those that accept certifications from any of the for-profit agencies.

 

[divingdayz]

@rick00001967: No interest in pro certification (although having a DM card might earn some free ride-alongs). My only reason for any interest in PADI is the instructor who certified me (Course Director, retired S&R, 20k dives, fantastic diver, fantastic person, getting to be friends). If I'm going to do a rescue cert I'd be inclined to go with guy who has actual experience doing rescues.

@tursiops: Thanks for the response; sorry for the confusion. As mentioned, I have no idea why I have both PADI and SSI OW certs. Like I said, I did the OW referral course and both cards came in the mail. It's probably irrelevant, except to say I'm in both systems.

I do understand that the PADI and SSI AOW certs are not equivalent. But according to the Internet, some dive operators won't take you out unless you have an AOW certification; they just don't say which AOW certification? PADI makes more sense in the context of deeper dives, but I can't find anything that specifies that. If that's the case, would these places take an SSI Deep Diver cert instead?

Good to know that SSI requires diving specialties for the AA. Does that apply to AOW as well? If so, that leads to the next question: which specialties count? More to the point, are the certs I already have (Perfect Buoyancy and EAN) on that list?

The reason I posted is that it seems like I might be at a bit of a decision point - PADI, SSI, or both? PADI materials cost more (sometimes a lot more), and I can drive to my local SSI shop in 5 minutes. If I need to pick one or the other I'd rather know that now than figure out a year from now that I should've made the decision a year ago.

You can actually kill two birds with one stone. SSI's diver stress and rescue is considered a speciality. You can do that, with React Right(I would also consdier doing the deep speciality), get your free AOW recognition from SSI and you will already have rescue level training.

 

[Belzelbub]

My understanding is that if I complete ***any*** two additional specialty courses SSI will automatically give me an AOW certification. Is that correct? Even if they're strictly classroom-based? I know the PADI AOW requires a deep dive and a navigation dive, but those don't seem to be as in-depth as the respective SSI certifications.

Yes, I believe this is correct. My preferred LDS is SSI, and they offer an AOW bundle at a discounted rate from the individual specialties. The bundle includes Night/Limited Vis, Navigation, and Deep. The 4th specialty can be anything. But, that's just the shop's discounted package. SSI doesn't restrict. As you already have EAN and Buoyancy, then I'd maybe suggest Deep and Navigation. That will get you an AOW recognition cert. The back of the cert will list the courses that qualified you for that, which should satisfy any operator that requires AOW.

I may want to get a rescue certification (PADI Rescue Diver / SSI Stress & Rescue) at some point, because that seems like a practical set of skills to acquire, and I'm not going to pick them up diving for fun. In the meantime, the conventional wisdom seems to be that having AOW is useful because some dive operators sometimes require it, especially for deeper diving. But if I have an SSI AOW without having gotten a Deep Water Diver certificate, why would that matter? Ditto if I get the Deep Water Diver cert but am one specialty cert short of AOW.

I would recommend Rescue or Stress & Rescue if the instructor is good. I took React Right and Stress & Rescue with a good instructor. Kept us on our toes the entire time. We knew we would be faced with some sort of issue, just never knew what, or exactly when.

If you stick with SSI on these, Stress & Rescue is a pre-req for Master Diver, which is another recognition cert. Stress & Rescue does have a pre-requisite of a number of dives and First Aid/CPR, O2 provider (React Right is another SSI specialty that covers those).

If the SSI instructors near you are horrible, then I wouldn't go that route. If they are good, this can probably save you a bit as the AOW and Master Diver cards from SSI are free. PADI will surely charge for that.