Padi marketing ploy???

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Ok, thanks for everyone's input. I see now that I merged the course requirements to the LDS business side of things.

I guess I need to shop around, like I did when I wanted to get certified. I was thinking for some reason that once I was past certification, the fees to continue your education should be the same across the board. I wasn't factoring in added LDS fees.
Yes, it varies greatly as to what is offered and what the price is. Even your OW was like this. PADI only set the minimum requirements. How the class is organized, marketed and billed is up to the business offering the course. You arent even buying the materials or processing off PADI. The dive shop purchases the materials and processing credits from PADI, adds some profit and sells to you.
 
LDS fees aren't "added". LDS fees are the whole shebang.

Think of it this way.. let's say Sears is selling tires. What they charge customers for each set of tires makes no difference to Firestone. Sears already bought the tires at a dealer price... they do not send a part of their own profit back to Firestone.

Dive shops work the same way. PADI charges a certain rate for printing educational material to be used in classes and a small fixed paperwork fee per certification. A shop can charge $100 for AOW or they can charge $250. PADI doesn't make a penny more. What determines the class price is just like any other product. supply/demand, and the shop's competitive advantage and how much profit margin they want to have.
 
Adventure diver course (AD)- lets say it costs $150. 3 courses of your choosing. 3 courses are credited toward your Advanced Open Water Certification, right?


Advanced Open Water Course (AOW)- Lets say it costs $150. Have to have 5 courses of your choosing. If I already took my adventure diver course, then why do I have to pay 150 for the other two courses to get my AOW??

Seems like it's a TERRIBLE deal if you're crediting your AD to your AOW.

Makes much better financial sense to pay the 150 ONE time and get all 5 dives rather than pay 300 to have only 3 combine with your other two to make you an AOW.

I'd rather pay 150 to take 5 completely different courses than the three that I had in AD.

First off let's look at terminology:

Adventure Diver is an acknowledgment that you have done 3 Adventure Dives, not 3 Adventure Courses. Specialties are the Courses in which the Adventure Dive is the first of the dives.

You can pay the cert fee for Adventure Diver with any 3 Adventure Dives, but you do not have to pay the cert fee; there is no reason to get the card. If the dives are logged properly, you can just wait until you have enough training dives to get the AOW cert.

AOW is 5 dives, not 5 Courses. The Deep Dive and Navigation Dive are required. You have not done a Deep Course or a Navigation Course, you have only done the first dive of the Deep and Navigation Courses.

If you then chose to do the Deep Specialty, you would only need dives 2, 3 & 4. Navigation Specialty would only require dives 2 & 3. If you did the Photography Adventure Dive as part of the AOW (or AD), you only need the 2nd Photography Dive to get the Photography Specialty. That is where I would say the AOW dives are credited towards the Specialty Courses.

To my knowledge there is no PADI Course with only one dive, although there are some with none. :lotsalove:

Now lets look at cost:

$150 for Adventure Diver would be $50 per training dive if the Crew Pack is not included. Did that include a full set of dive gear, everything but M, S & F or just tanks and weights? I'd guess the dives are from shore; 3-tank boat trips would up the price considerably most places.

$50 for training dives is not a high price for any dive shop I know of. In Hawaii not many Instructors will work for less than $80 per 2 training dives. The only way your pricing makes sense for a dive shop is with more than 2 students.

$150 to finish AOW would be $75 per training dive (you already have the Crew Pack). A dive computer and compass might be included in the supplied gear. In many locations the deep dive requires a boat trip, as suitable waters deeper than 60' are not always accessible from shore. The Navigation Dive requires considerable dry training and practice (if done right). A shop would have to pay me at least $100 to make it worth my while.

$300 for AOW is a really good price in many locations. With your own gear in a cold dark quarry it seems on the high side. :D

Finally, PADI fees:

Each Cert costs the shop (or independent instructor) ~$12-$16 depending on their annual volume; Crew Packs cost ~$30-$55. The Instructor(s) pay(s) ~$150 annually for membership and Dive Shops pay a lot more for annual membership. Depending on the level of membership, PADI might very well make more on a $250 class vs a $100 class, or vise versa if the $100 class was an independent instructor. Volume is the only way PADI makes real profit, gear sales are usually the only way Dive Shops make any profit and tips are usually the only way instructors eat dinner. :rofl3:
 
No matter which way I went with that, someone would have commented. I was not being judgmental of PADI, as I am a PADI Nitrox Specialty Instructor, which does not require any dives, and I was a PADI Medic First Aid Instructor when fresh out of Resort Pro.
 
Sure, you just included the loser smile, which kinda looked like a critique to me.
 
To my knowledge there is no PADI Course with only one dive, although there are some with none. :lotsalove:

Sure, you just included the loser smile, which kinda looked like a critique to me.

:shakehead: If you look closely at the text when you use the green finger shooting smiley, you will see that it's name is lotsalove. This is the smiley I use in situations where I encounter a loser. :shakehead:
 
alright alright, thanks everyone for your replies. It was most enlightening. Seriously, thanks for everyone's input.

I've caught the bug and I'm loving the diving.
 
Seems to me that you encountered a dive instructor or dive center that did not adequately explain the Adventure Diver?AOW course to you prior to. I'll have to say that as both a NAUI Instructor and a PADI MSDT, I know both worlds. I have to vehemently disagree with T Sherman on his assessment of PADI being a rip off. I have to say that with 100-199 dives to his credit (at least as is listed) that his experience with either agency has been minimal. Having said that, PADI IS the world's largest scuba certifying agency going. They got there for a reason. Excellent business plan, an education program that is designed to meet divers needs and goals in a safe, controlled manner at the divers pace, and of course outstanding marketing programs. PADI isn't your problem as I read your post. Your problem is with either the instructor or the dive center. PADI provides the programs and tools, it is up to the instructor and dive centers to provide the nuts and bolts to any education...as does NAUI....simply put..outstanding customer service. With either agency, if your dive center or instructor is marginal or poor, then you will get ripped off or feel you did and not come away with what you expect in scuba and training/con ed. Forget the hype you may get as to which agency is best. "Best" lies with your instructor, the dive center, and proper education of you the diver by both. I've seen good and bad from both agencies so the onus isn't the agency friend, it is the instructor or shop. Best of luck in your diving education in the future!
 
When you say the specialty courses require tests are you saying that aside from the 5 dives for AOW there are no written tests aside from the knowledge reviews?
 

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