Ask to see the standards in Black & White, then watch her turn red when she finds out she's wrong.
Note: It's on Page 23 general standards & procedures 2011 manual.
PADI Junior Open Water Diver
- Thread starter dujubber
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Ask to see the standards in Black & White, then watch her turn red when she finds out she's wrong.
Note: It's on Page 23 general standards & procedures 2011 manual.
I don't see the problem here - its a guided dive not an agency sanctioned activity therefore no standards apply - they're quite entitled to impose whatever restrictions they see fit on divers as a matter of company policy.
archiebald
Contributor
Here's a practical viewpoint. My 12 yo daughter and I just completed our OW certificates this summer.
We were reliably informed by the staff at the PADI resort (Malaysia) that for JOW, 10-11 yo is 12 meter limit, 12-14 yo is 18 meters.
OW dives 1 and 2 were conducted at 7 meters, 3 and 4 were at 16-17 meters. After the course, 3 days of follow up dives saw us down to 20.5 meters.
I assumed it was a lung development thing, but their understanding was it is due to bone development.
After the course, we made 6 additional dives over 3 days to 16-20 meters.
Prior to our vacation, the PADI e-Learning site was very confusing due to minimum age of a child accessing the internet. However, after an email to PADI, they informed me 12 yo for eLearning is fine, and I believe they updated this on their site.
We haven't yet received our final cards so I can't tell you what is on there yet.
We were reliably informed by the staff at the PADI resort (Malaysia) that for JOW, 10-11 yo is 12 meter limit, 12-14 yo is 18 meters.
OW dives 1 and 2 were conducted at 7 meters, 3 and 4 were at 16-17 meters. After the course, 3 days of follow up dives saw us down to 20.5 meters.
I assumed it was a lung development thing, but their understanding was it is due to bone development.
After the course, we made 6 additional dives over 3 days to 16-20 meters.
Prior to our vacation, the PADI e-Learning site was very confusing due to minimum age of a child accessing the internet. However, after an email to PADI, they informed me 12 yo for eLearning is fine, and I believe they updated this on their site.
We haven't yet received our final cards so I can't tell you what is on there yet.
To be perfectly honest, your son was "sorta" certified last summer.
PADI Scuba Diver certification is "sorta" half of the PADI Open Water Diver certification. It is possible that most PADI Scuba Divers are people who were not able to complete a full OW Diver cert (for whatever reasons). IMHO, very few PADI Scuba Divers made a conscious decision to become a PADI Scuba Diver; they were either "sold" a second dive after the Intro Dive, which combined with some book work and some pool work can result in Scuba Diver, or they failed the OW Diver and got Scuba Diver instead.
This thread is about PADI Jr Open Water Diver, which means they do not "have to" dive with a PADI Pro. 10 & 11 year old PADI Jr OW Divers are not allowed to dive deeper than 40' (12 m), and a PADI Pro that takes them deeper than that is in violation of PADI Standards.* 12-14 year old PADI Jr OW Divers are "Recommended" to not dive deeper than 60' (18 m), except on Training Dives (Adventure Dives) which are not to be deeper than 70' (20m?). On a Training Dive, a PADI Pro would be violating PADI Standards if they took the 12-14 y/o deeper than 70' (20 m).
As I understand Standards, with 12-14 y/o divers on a non-training guided dive, a PADI Pro could guide the dive deeper than 60', or even deeper than 70', and not be in violation of PADI Standards. The decision to go deeper than 60 or 70' deep is left to the parent/guardian/adult that is ultimately in charge of the minor's safety.
PADI Standards really only apply to PADI Training Dives and PADI Program Dives.
*Many, including me, feel that the 40' (12 m) max depth for 10 & 11 y/o divers is more than a Recommendation.
RockRover
Registered
At 10yo my daughter went for her Jr. OW. They were using AL80's for the training, and she had some trouble handling the weight of the full rig walking across the beach during a shore dive checkout. She was more than competent in the water (by OW standards), but I, being a noob myself, agreed that Jr. Scuba Diver was appropriate because I initially liked the idea of being required to have a DM (or higher) with her/us and the depth recommendation is the same. Yes we were sold a bill of goods in that our "instructor" wanted a day off on our last day of vacation and she missed her final OW dive. No biggie, but we then had to go to Jr. OW (read take the test again, and pay twice). The good news is that two years later @ 12yo, she got her Jr. AOW, and is stoked to go for Rescue this spring (so am I).
Funny thing is that shortly after she got her Jr. Scuba Diver c-card, while in Belize, we cracked 100' on a couple of dives. Our DM and I made the call, along with her, that her competence in the water was more than adequate for the dives we did. It wasn't a matter of the c-card, but more on ability. Which, IMO, is the way it should be (and most often is) in life. The girl is a natural, I'm proud to call her my buddy, and can and do trust her with being able to handle just about any emergency situation that could arise. Getting her Jr. Rescue will only reinforce that.
Funny thing is that shortly after she got her Jr. Scuba Diver c-card, while in Belize, we cracked 100' on a couple of dives. Our DM and I made the call, along with her, that her competence in the water was more than adequate for the dives we did. It wasn't a matter of the c-card, but more on ability. Which, IMO, is the way it should be (and most often is) in life. The girl is a natural, I'm proud to call her my buddy, and can and do trust her with being able to handle just about any emergency situation that could arise. Getting her Jr. Rescue will only reinforce that.
ajpearson1
Registered
I have now read this all twice....and still want to make a comment.........
This year I plan to take two of my girls for a short diving holiday. Myself and eldest are AOW but want/need to get some more dives in as we only seem to manage to dive on holiday.
Youngest achieved her Junior Open Water, is now aged 14 and will be 14 when we plan to holiday. She only has 10 dives recorded, wants to do a lot more, but this year I cannot afford more qualifications.....Her current card has "Junior Open Water Diver, 10-11 With Parent/PADI Pro 12m/40.
12+ with Adult"
SO I read that as meaning over 12m with an adult.....and assuming the adult was me AND a qualified instructor who would be looking after the three of us (maye to 21m based on a couple of the dives we would like to do...) we contacted some venues in different places....and the difference in response is amazing.
Some places in Egypt almost told me not to bother coming as she would hardly be able to dive at all. They almost seemed to say we would HAVE to pay for Junior Advanced .
Cyprus - open arms (come on back) and they know the limit she dived to (with them making certain and me there as the one taking responsibility).
Spain/Menorca - very good and useful info - and seemed to be limiting her to 21m.........
So I agree this is all a VERY confusing situation.
My next question is... lets assume I pay for her to get Junior Advanced Open Water - the same depth "limit" applies (whatever it really is).... but when she turns 15 - what happens ? A new card with again "12+ with adult" or something different
This year I plan to take two of my girls for a short diving holiday. Myself and eldest are AOW but want/need to get some more dives in as we only seem to manage to dive on holiday.
Youngest achieved her Junior Open Water, is now aged 14 and will be 14 when we plan to holiday. She only has 10 dives recorded, wants to do a lot more, but this year I cannot afford more qualifications.....Her current card has "Junior Open Water Diver, 10-11 With Parent/PADI Pro 12m/40.
12+ with Adult"
SO I read that as meaning over 12m with an adult.....and assuming the adult was me AND a qualified instructor who would be looking after the three of us (maye to 21m based on a couple of the dives we would like to do...) we contacted some venues in different places....and the difference in response is amazing.
Some places in Egypt almost told me not to bother coming as she would hardly be able to dive at all. They almost seemed to say we would HAVE to pay for Junior Advanced .
Cyprus - open arms (come on back) and they know the limit she dived to (with them making certain and me there as the one taking responsibility).
Spain/Menorca - very good and useful info - and seemed to be limiting her to 21m.........
So I agree this is all a VERY confusing situation.
My next question is... lets assume I pay for her to get Junior Advanced Open Water - the same depth "limit" applies (whatever it really is).... but when she turns 15 - what happens ? A new card with again "12+ with adult" or something different
The 12+ on her card refers to age, not depth, and simply means that at age 12 she can dive with any adult <defined as opver 18> diver as a buddy. She is no longer restricted to buddying with a parent or PADI pro only. The depth limitations on the card are imposed by the training agency (PADI) and apply to training situations, or situations in which a PADI pro is performing as a well, a PADI pro - i.e. buddying with your junior diver.
Other depth limitations might be imposed by any dive operation with whom you do business. (And hopefully by the divers' common sense.)
At age 15 she can convert her Junior Open Water to Open Water, with no caveats written on the card.
Other depth limitations might be imposed by any dive operation with whom you do business. (And hopefully by the divers' common sense.)
At age 15 she can convert her Junior Open Water to Open Water, with no caveats written on the card.
PADI "Suggested" Depth Limits:
Jr. Open Water Diver age 10 - 11: 12m/40 feet maximum depth
Jr. Open Water Diver age 12 - 14: 18 m/60 feet maximum depth
Jr. Advanced Open Water Diver age 12 - 14: 21m/70 feet maximum depth
Open Water Diver age 15 - up: 18m/60 feet maximum depth
Advanced Open Water Diver age 15 - up: 100 feet maximum depth
I hope this answers your questions but as to what an individual out fit would do?
BTW, I looked through my Instructor Manual to see if I could find the procedure for upgrading from a Junior Card and I didn't find anything (not that it isn't there, just that I didn't find it).
Jr. Open Water Diver age 10 - 11: 12m/40 feet maximum depth
Jr. Open Water Diver age 12 - 14: 18 m/60 feet maximum depth
Jr. Advanced Open Water Diver age 12 - 14: 21m/70 feet maximum depth
Open Water Diver age 15 - up: 18m/60 feet maximum depth
Advanced Open Water Diver age 15 - up: 100 feet maximum depth
I hope this answers your questions but as to what an individual out fit would do?
BTW, I looked through my Instructor Manual to see if I could find the procedure for upgrading from a Junior Card and I didn't find anything (not that it isn't there, just that I didn't find it).
When I worked in Egypt it was a common misconception about the PADI Jnr OW. Jnr Jnr's, those aged 10-11 are limited to 12, those 12+ to 18. Ask these shops if it is PADI standards, shop standards or A.N.Other.
If they claim it's PADI standards tell them to check the manual (I cited the page in a previous post on this thread), or with a Course Director as they are wrong. Most likely it is an office employee who either doesn't dive, or maybe just has OW themselves.
ajpearson1
Registered
You guys (and gals??) are amazing.... Many thanks
Facts are simple... during her Junior Open Water - her instructor kept a VERY close watch on her.... allowed her to accompany me and eldest lass on a dive that would have been to her permitted limit. After the dive there was a LONG discussion to the youngest about watching better, monitoring herself better and general good safety discussions.
The following day on a very similar dive she excelled at the dive and with good and careful watching she followed us to a depth that was well within our levels but a new experience for her.... She got to touch the hull of a wreck and she was VERY pleased...
If finances could make it I would take them back to Cyprus where she did her Jnr OW.... as they really were excellent and showed her not only the requirements of Jnr OW but also the need for extra care, thought and planning......
The places we have contacted in Egypt have been very helpful - but seem a bit restrictive for us all. We are semi novices... we dont have 100's of dives.. but wanted to experience more..... They seemed to be suggesting some very restrictive dives and almost nothing for the Jnr OW lass.........
We are currently in communication with an operation on one of the SPanish Islands... and they are being VERY helpful.......and winning right now in the finance contest as well.......
Again - many thanks for all your help and advice
Facts are simple... during her Junior Open Water - her instructor kept a VERY close watch on her.... allowed her to accompany me and eldest lass on a dive that would have been to her permitted limit. After the dive there was a LONG discussion to the youngest about watching better, monitoring herself better and general good safety discussions.
The following day on a very similar dive she excelled at the dive and with good and careful watching she followed us to a depth that was well within our levels but a new experience for her.... She got to touch the hull of a wreck and she was VERY pleased...
If finances could make it I would take them back to Cyprus where she did her Jnr OW.... as they really were excellent and showed her not only the requirements of Jnr OW but also the need for extra care, thought and planning......
The places we have contacted in Egypt have been very helpful - but seem a bit restrictive for us all. We are semi novices... we dont have 100's of dives.. but wanted to experience more..... They seemed to be suggesting some very restrictive dives and almost nothing for the Jnr OW lass.........
We are currently in communication with an operation on one of the SPanish Islands... and they are being VERY helpful.......and winning right now in the finance contest as well.......
Again - many thanks for all your help and advice
Similar threads
