PADI Dry Suit Class

[HenrikBP]

Do some checking here on the board about instructors before hiring one.

I know - and thank you I don't think I get less than many regular agency students. I think I maybe expect more than the LDSs around here are prepared to give.

Henrik

 

[Elemental]

It's ironic considering the new technical classes PADI now offers, as you said. How do they address these disparities - by remedial work in the technical course or expect students to have picked it up in the interim?

 

[scubamountaingirl]

This is a report of the class I took for my drysuit .. I've read here many times that if you have a mentor , it's no big deal to learn a drysuit .... my thoughts on that after taking this class is that he better be a darn good one.

DB
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PADI Drysuit Class (plus all optional training)

1st pool session ... 3 people + instructor, Ian Martin

Weighting was to be 6lbs more than what each used for wetsuit diving (wanted us heavy) and we were to only use BC at surface, deflate BC and use drysuit under water for buoyancy control so as to only monitor one device and keep task loading down.

We first went over the answers we gave for the questions in the PADI Drysuit book, with the instructor asking questions about them and setting up scenarios and talking about our responses to them, and adding his own.

We suited up and checked each other pre-dive check, carried our gear over to the pool and put BC/tank into pool first, ourselves jumping in after ... instructor stressing that we should get air out of suit before jumping in and that we should try to keep head from going under to lesson stress on zipper and neck seal.
In pool without gear or fins to demonstrate that in just a drysuit your buoyant , and without fins your pretty helpless ... we then donned our gear in the water and descended to bottom (10ft)
NOTE: each drill was demonstrated to us first, then we did them.
The first drill was to demonstrate that inflater can not fill suit faster than it will vent, IF your in the proper position
... Fin pivots (did poorly, floaty feet & fins)
.... practiced hovering, then swimming, then stopping to a hover (buoyancy was OK, but couldn't stay still when hovering, feet were twitchy cause I could not get stable)
... then feet up, head down hovering to show that just having air in feet does not change your buoyancy, only your trim
... then we practiced finding and removing inflater hose on the count of three
... then practiced recoveries, we float over to instructor, he holds BC, pushes inflater for the count of three, then tips you feet up and lets you go .. rolling and bending at waist, while kicking hard (not good, went to surface several times, once one of my neoprene wetsuit boots that I was using as "rock boots" inflated enough to have foot come out leave me stranded with boot/fin flopping on surface upside down (instructor just watches you, waiting to see what you'll try, and if you can come out of it, then discusses what you did, or did not try) ... Instructor said that technically after one pool session we could do the OW dives now (not that he would let us, he was just pointing that out) he asked if I felt ready to go in the ocean .. I just laughed at him .. no way!

2nd Pool Session ... 4 people + instructor

Buddy checked gear
I had tank lower by about 12 to 25mm to get feet down (steel HP100) practiced fin pivots (yay, I can do them well now)
Practiced descents , horizontal, not to hit bottom, (needed to add lots of air to stop decent, can tell I'm heavy)
... more swimming, matching instructors depth changes, and hovering when stopping
... suit inflater removal drills
... more recovery practice, with inflater removal ( once I got both feet to come out of boots, leaving me stranded on surface , I struggled, helpless and then thought about using the last ditch, tangled in kelp, I'm out of air, recovery method .. use a knife to poke a hole in your suit legs to let the air out! :laughing: (talked to me/us after, inflate BC to get horizontal) I had to get out of pool to fix my feet/boots , then ran out of time at that point because pool closing.

... I learned that the boots I was using are in no way suitable for a drysuit (seasoft stealth) them being made of neoprene, they can expand when inflated, allowing my feet to come out .. I went and got proper rock boots!

3rd Pool Session ... 2 people + Instructor

We practiced more inflater disconnect drills, then coupled them with suit inflated/feet up drills .. went to surface several times again .. instructor said to us that we were not reacting fast enough, don't wait there after he inflates suit, kick hard right at the count of three when he lets go ...we then practiced the hard part, while wearing all cold water gear, gloves, hood, we were going to practice pulling open neck seal along with the feet up/stuck inflater drill, said that he will not pass us unless we can do this without reaching the surface ... when we tried it again I was very much better, kicking hard, I immediately rolled on right side while disconnecting inflater, bend at waist, get head up, pull open neck seal, level out, return to instructor while reconnecting inflater hose .. I did that 4 times without ever getting close to surface and 1 time actually stopping in front of instructor hovering without ever touching bottom .. passed the hard part!


.................... Ocean Dives .........................


1st Ocean Dive ... 2 people + Instructor .. to Wreck Alley 15 minutes off coast

First dive was on the 366ft Destroyer Yukon, laying on port side, Depth 98ft , Viz 25ft

We geared up and went in, practiced gear removal and donning on surface, then descended line, stopping at 20ft to recheck buddies, gear, then descended and gathered at forward turret, went down to sand to practice fin pivots (as planned) I was horizontal whole time on decent, hovered just above instructor as he signaled fin pivot to us, I floated down in front of him and did them for 1 minute .. we then swam around with instructor making depth changes (10ft changes .. 85 to 75ft) that we were to follow, at one point dipping head down off edge of deck and watching us closely to see .. what what we did (to see if we had respect for head down) how we did it and watching for any problems ..we went up at the line at about 24 min when we ran out of NDL time .. slow ascent, stopped at 40ft, 30ft, safety stop at 20ft .. debriefed on surface interval

2nd Ocean Dive .. 2 people + Instructor (didn't lose anyone LOL )

El Rey ... kelp cutter, Depth 75ft, Viz 20 to 30ft

We descended line, stopping at 20ft to buddy/gear check then collected on wreck, Ian tied off a line and we went around the deck, then off to the side, inflater removal drill, then back across deck out to about 30 ft off starboard .. we practiced hovering and at one point instructor pointed at line, then back toward wreck and signaled "see" .. very dimly you could see a darker area, no way would you know that's the wreck without knowing that it was .. at about 23 minutes we returned to our starting point and ascended the line back to the boat, debriefed .. discussed why he ran the line and the reasons to use one .. you can get lost from ascent line on an unfamiliar wreck, current can whip up and we were off the wreck with nothing to hold on to (except the line) if it did kick up.

Great dives, great expereance, with my good friend and Instructor, Ian.
... he will not pass you unless he thinks you will be a safe diver, and thereby have fun diving, stay in the sport and be a good shepherd for our oceans.

This class was a real eye opener and I never would have thought that a drysuit could be so challanging in an emergency, or that the training would be so important .. get it.

BTW .. I passed! ... and he even came here posted and said I looked "very good" out there! :cool2:


(I bet I've forgotten something, but it may be more telling of the quality of instruction by what I do remember)

DB

.

oh my god...I had almost NONE of that. i was thrown into a pool told what to do, failed almost every task, taken to open water, given a suit that leaked and did two dives with the teacher on the shore, on the phone....since then i have had to learn by myself and the grace of friends, some very patient some unbearably intolerant....thank you for posting what a real drysuit class should be like. wendy

 

[dave4868]

I wish to have this thread stay on topic ... I know, that's funny right there :laughing:
Because .. I want to know ... I want reasons why someone thinks what they do ... Just making a statement like "I wish they would stop" doing something , really needs an explanation of your reasons why you think that.

thanks guys
DB

Just to poke a little friendly fun, from the discussion here, one would think the two methods of controlling buoyancy in drysuit diving must be very complicated and/or involve advanced muscle memory training or something....

That's not the case, IMHO.

One doesn't have to "unlearn" anything to switch from one method to the other. No training has been "wasted", since both are useful in different situations. Heck, I've switched from one method to the other in the middle of a dive just to keep from overheating....

FWIW, here's my perspective on the two methods of buoyancy control for drysuit diving.

Use of only the drysuit for buoyancy control (BCD empty, except on the surface):
​

• Simpler to vent just one device on sawtooth, shallow dives or on ascent (arguably safer in an out-of-control ascent, provided the drysuit exhaust valve can vent fast enough)
• Undergarments are warmer (more air means more loft, less squeeze and drier)
• Massive, and potentially dangerous, air shifting or burping can occur with a loose fitting drysuit or with the larger air bubble needed to offset more negative configurations, like doubles
• Trim can be harder to maintain

Use of the BCD for primary buoyancy control (drysuit has just enough air for comfort):

• Less air shifting, easier to maintain trim
• BCD will have higher practical lift capacity than the drysuit
• BCD's higher capacity exhaust valves vent more quickly
• In shallow water (less than 30'), coordinating the venting of both the bcd and the drysuit may become difficult to do quickly enough to avoid an out of control ascent
• Undergarments may be less warm, since the drysuit is typically squeezed much more

There may be other pros and cons and these may be disputed, but this might be a starting point.

I might add that using the BCD for primary buoyancy control is quite manageable even though it will actually involve control of two buoyancy devices. The drysuit buoyancy rarely needs adjustment during a typical deeper square profile dive. For shallow, sawtooth dives, both buoyancy devices will need adjustments more frequently, of course.

Personally, for the significantly increased warmth, I use only the drysuit for my buoyancy control on my often shallow, sawtooth dives. I'm usually wearing quite a bit of insulation and weight (38 to 54 lbs, depending on water temps), so I have a significant amount of air that can shift around. Despite all that, because my suit's not baggy, the air shifting is fairly slow and limited and not a problem. YMMV.

However, there are occasions when I switch back to using my BCD for my primary buoyancy control.

One such occasion would be when diving warmer water with very light insulation. The resultant loose fit of the drysuit allows rapid air shifting, so I vent most of it out and use the BCD instead.

Another occasion, as I mentioned, is when I want to avoid overheating by increasing suit squeeze. If half of a dive is in water temps in the low 40's F and the other half is in the upper 60's F, I may switch methods on the same dive.

Easy peasy....

Dave C

 

[NudeDiver]

Great post.

It's interesting that you mention overheating as a potential issue. I can't imagine being overheated in any environment where I am going to wear a drysuit. Even in the warm, warm, warm waters of Australia, I had a full 5mm suit and could not describe myself as overheated (although people did seem to think me strange)

Easy peasy...

Not in your drysuit I hope.

 

[Teamcasa]

My 2 PSI.

Like you D_B, I dive primarily here in SoCal. (50f-70f water) I would also say that using the DrySuit for 100% of your buoyancy control is unnecessary.

For me, I use the DrySuit for about 20% of the buoyancy and the wing for the rest.

A typical dive goes like this:
As I begin to descend (the wing is empty), I add air to the suit to slow my descent until I get to about 40fsw.

If the dive plan is shallow, then I only put enough air in the suit to relieve squeeze and use the wing for added control.

Below 40fsw, I only add or remove air to the wing. However, a puff or two in the suit may be necessary for squeeze relief.

As the tank empties, I vent the wing first. Once I begin to ascend, I first vent the suit (left arm up and chicken wing) then vent the wing. Repeat until the desired depth is obtained.

Once on the surface, I pump air into the suit for comfort and flexibility then add additional air into the wing for safety.

One caveat, if I was diving very cold water I might use more air in the suit but I would have added additional weight beforehand to maintain my 80/20 preference.

 

[dave4868]

Great post.

It's interesting that you mention overheating as a potential issue. I can't imagine being overheated in any environment where I am going to wear a drysuit. Even in the warm, warm, warm waters of Australia, I had a full 5mm suit and could not describe myself as overheated (although people did seem to think me strange)

Not in your drysuit I hope.

Not yet, but I do hope to dive to the age of incontinence.

As far as overheating, since I'm over-insulated to achieve "wussy warmth" for the full duration of my long, low-activity dives, it can be a real possibility if I become more active or get above the thermocline, for instance.

Heck, my usual activity level is so low, I'm afraid someone will collar me thinking I've drowned.... That would probably give me a heart attack and they'd get credit for a rescue!

Dave C

 

[D_B]

oh my god...I had almost NONE of that. i was thrown into a pool told what to do, failed almost every task, taken to open water, given a suit that leaked and did two dives with the teacher on the shore, on the phone....since then i have had to learn by myself and the grace of friends, some very patient some unbearably intolerant....thank you for posting what a real drysuit class should be like. wendy

Dang! hope that you got things worked out
I now now how dangerous that was, and irresponsible that instructor was ...
.. that kind of thing would make my instrutors blood boil

I am lucky that my suit fits very well, not hardly any room for too much air, and have plenty of time to notice that air is flowing feetward (lower half is crushed neoprene, fits kinda snug)

 

[ScubaSam]

DB - Thank you for pointing me to your post this afternoon, I sent the link to Wendy (scubamountaingirl) and as you can see, it was an eye-opener for her.

Again, thanks, DB.

 

[D_B]

I forgot one thing in my report, that the instructor stressed the importance of having enough lift in your wing/BC to support you if your suit completely floods .. diving in cold water in a drysuit and a dinky vacation BC is a recipe for a BIG problem