PADI a pain?!?

[mislav]

It would seem so. After all, your profile claims that you have been to 70 meters and you are just out of OW?

May I suggest that DAN's phone number be programmed into your cell phone?

In any case, good luck to you.

I thought you said 'peace', hemlon? Why continue lowballing then?

I'm out of my AOW and Nitrox now. That's the official training I have.

I don't need your suggestions regarding the DAN since I always know where the nearest deco chamber or medical facilities are. I've even been to one as part of my education, not as a patient. I never had an accident during diving, but I did assist some people solving theirs.

How about you? And what does this have to do with anything this topic is about? TSandM just gave you the expanded version of what I said regarding this subject. You agree with that but have some issues with my posts? What's your problem? Or Steve's for that matter since it was him that jumped on my posts first?

Thanks for wishing me good luck. Vice versa.

 

[Charlie99]

Who gets an ascent line for a CESA? The E is for Emergency.

If a student starts holding his breath while bolting for the surface, the ascent line is there to assist the instructor in stopping the ascent. That's why the instructor must maintain contact with both the student and the line at all times during the CESA drill. (I'm not an instructor, but the reason is pretty obvious if you think about the drill and hazards involved).

 

[Walter]

The question is whether you would have what it takes to go through an old school training. Instead you were given the basic one. This allowed for you to take a breath before diving into more complicated skills and knowledge. PADI introduced diving to the masses. The dangers of doing so are what this thread is about.

Nope. A more comprehensive course than required by PADI standards requires more time, but it's actually easier for both the students and the instructors than the typical PADI class. It certainlt produces more comfortable and more competent divers.

To make an attempt to answer the OP (on the theory that the OP wasn't just sticking a twig in an anthill), there are a lot of people on this board who feel that the training of open water divers is, in general, unsatisfactory. PADI becomes the symbol for rapid-fire, cursory training because it is a huge agency and trains a LOT of divers, has made a point of creating shorter, easier training courses, and has a tendency to present its material in a very simple fashion with lots of little stories and bright colors. It's big, it's visible, and it's definitely part of the problem that some people perceive.

Actually, some agencies have pretty good, far from perfect, but pretty good standards. PADI's are particularly bad.

 

[mislav]

I can't speak for anyone else but the things I blame PADI for are the things they don't teach or teach poorly.

Maybe, but maybe certs are handed out too easily. My first rescue was bringing a lady in total ful blown panic up from about 65 ft. She shouldn't have been there at all and I shouldn't have been supervising her!

In my case it wasn't getting too much information too fast. It was being in diving and teaching situations that I didn't have the knowledge or skill to be in...my cards said I was ready though. the missing information was the problem.

Yes, the certs are handed out too easily. The shortened time is the major contributor to the faulty teaching. I don't blame PADI for mistakes their instructors make if they don't stick to the program, though.

 

[MikeFerrara]

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Who gets an ascent line for a CESA? The E is for Emergency.

Isn't that like training pilots how to ditch their aircraft only when there's a huge field full of comfy-pillows and beanbag chairs nearby?

Terry

PADI requires an instructor to use a line for the purposes of controling a student the first time they attempt the skill in OW. The student isn't allowed to use the line.

As in all things they stop short in that the student is never required to perform the skill without the instructor holding onto them. Great, that's safer but the instructor may not be there with a hand on the student and a hand or leg on a line when the student has to do it for real.

And...if it's such a big concern why not teach a little gas management in the first place? Oh, I know, they tell you to watch your SPG. Watch it for what? When do you turn? When should you ascend? How much do you need in reserve and why? This is like the second or third biggest joke in dive training...and lots of divers run out of or low on air. What do the agencies need a 2X4 to hit them in the head before they start really teaching it?

 

[mislav]

Nope. A more comprehensive course than required by PADI standards requires more time, but it's actually easier for both the students and the instructors than the typical PADI class. It certainlt produces more comfortable and more competent divers.

What I meant was they let you in the water with only the basic knowledge of diving and let you find out the rest on your own if you continue to dive and survive that long. We're on a same page here, Walter.

 

[Walter]

What I meant was they let you in the water with only the basic knowledge of diving and let you find out the rest on your own if you continue to dive and survive that long. We're on a same page here, Walter.

Actually, we're not. I think their standards are just short of criminal.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Nope. A more comprehensive course than required by PADI standards requires more time, but it's actually easier for both the students and the instructors than the typical PADI class. It certainlt produces more comfortable and more competent divers.

I think more time than some instructors invest but I think you could teach a good class without being out of the ball park.

Actually, some agencies have pretty good, far from perfect, but pretty good standards. PADI's are particularly bad.

One of these days, you an I should have a conversation about this. I don't doubt you but I have seen other agencies classes and they haven't been much different.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes, the certs are handed out too easily. The shortened time is the major contributor to the faulty teaching. I don't blame PADI for mistakes their instructors make if they don't stick to the program, though.

Who writes the low-level standards that the Padi Instructor must adhere to?......and who states that nothing should be added or taken out of the program lest your course be different the guy's half way around the globe? Yes Padi.

What's more, the prospective Instructor has spent his entire life watching first hand how Padi courses are conducted, from their own OW up to them helping in DM classes. They can rightly assume that this is how the training must be done, as that's all they have ever seen, and Padi certainly hasn't told them otherwise, so the faulty training continues as the problem feeds on itself. This is why it will continue to be this way for a heck of a long time.

I know MI's plus that I wouldn't feel at all comfortable with diving in 70ft. They themselves haven't been off their knees in 3 years, and their personal dives are limitted to nill, which is to say the sum of their diving is in 25ft of water kneeling on a platform with their students.

The best part is when they express interest in becoming the next CD in the area.

I see a continuing problem in the ranks for a while yet.

I won't even tell you of the ineptness in dive skill that I saw in my IDC and IE. And these people are now out doing exactly what Mike had stated. Bringing students to depths beyond 60ft when they themselves have no business in the world being there.

 

[Hemlon]

Same here, Mike.

I started with SSI for OW but didn't finish it due to life events. Started from scratch with NAUI and completed OW. PADI for AOW, Rescue and part of DM.

The way I see it, they are all about the same. THE difference is THE instructor.