Overhauling regulators

[diverrick]

I recently picked up a pair of used regulators, and had both overhauled at two different LDS's. I was struck with a thought about this maintenance, and I wanted ask about it here, but I must explain something first, before I ask the question.
I am an Aircraft Technician/Inspector. In that industry, there are certain rules, based on previous disasters, that must be followed to prevent accidents, and deaths. One of these is that one Technician is not supposed to work on both engines at the same time. It is preferred that two different Technicians work on separate engines, on the premise that if Tech #1 makes a mistake, that he won't do it on the other engines as well. This was based on an incident some years ago where a Person worked on both engines of a aircraft (might've been three engines) but.. he accidentally did the job incorrectly, on all the engines, and while in flight, the engines stated failing, until there were no more engines to operate
FAA imposed this rule after this incident from what I have been told.
Now... When I took in the regulators, the same tech overhauled both regs, and the primary. If both secondarys are the same, and he overhauled both incorrectly, doesn't that inject some amount of possable error that could kill you down the road, while diving? It would seen more prudent to have the regs serviced alternately, or by two different techs, to prevent this kind of error. Like the aircraft engines, they ran fine on the ground after maintenance, it took a while, but they did eventually fail. I would think the same thing could happen with Regulators.

 

[ew1usnr]

Your reasoning is correct. I have had regulators overhauled and gotten them back with wrong parts installed and not operating correctly (different regulators, different parts, different shops, numerous instances). If I had had two of the same type regulator overhauled by that same technician at the same time he would have made the same mistake in both regulators.

I have gotten regulators back with sand inside (on both 1st and 2nd stages) which indicates that they did not even open the regulator. I have seen a wrong 2nd stage replacement case (close but not the same). An exhaust tee on upside down (minor but not confidence inspiring). Wrong LP seats. A wrong HP seat.
Torn o-rings. HP creep. Wildly high IP settings.

Sometimes a similar part can be substituted and the regulator will work fine. But these wrong parts were not even similar. A solid HP seat to replace one with a hole in the center, for instance. The hole provided a retricted flow to the inflator port. No hole, no air to the inflator.

When I pointed out some of these problems I was told that I had voided the warranty by opening the regulator myself.

Always ask to have the old parts that were supposed to have been replaced. That gives you some assurance that parts actulally were replaced and it gives you a reference to compare the new parts against.

 

[diverrick]

Exactly why I took each Reg to a separate LDS. that way even if the tech worked both my Regs, and they fail, My Wifes (hopefully) will work. Imagine that you had both unit serviced at the same LDS, and they made the same mistake on all of the regs!!! then where would you be. I am not a usually "paranoid" diver, but when it comes to regs, I tend to want to cover all contigencies, as I can live without our all my other gear, but with out air, I am screwed!

 

[RiverRat]

You guys brought up some good points, scary stuff. That's why I ordered some rebuild kits for both my Apeks regulators. At the least, I want to know how these things work, how they're supposed to work, what to look for if they start failing etc. I've got an IP guage and from what I understand that it's a good idea to keep an eye on IP pressure etc. as you may be able to pickup an imminent failure before it actually occurs when you least expect it. Having your regulator serviced by an LDS is just as scary (more so) that taking your vehicle to a dealership..............

 

[shrwdtech]

I think the first and foremost thing thought to keep in mind is to get to know the person you are handing your gear to for service. Take a look around the shop. If it's untidy and unorganized, the repair area is a mess, and the person you are giving your gear to isn't exactly "all there", then it's a good bet he's handling your gear exactly like what you see around you.

One of the things I promote when I'm doing my Reg Repair Seminars is the use of the repair guides. I got this from my time as an Aircraft Mechanic/technician in the Air Force and as an A&P mechanic after that. You may not need to read word for word what is needed to do your task, but have it available and open for use as needed to refer to. (The other advantage is if some silly bothersome QA or FAA inspector asks you a dumb-assed question you don't have to look foolish bumbling around for the answer.)

Same thought goes to the reg repair. You don't have to bumble around looking for the answer when something comes up. It's right there.

I also try to get them to understand the importance of working on ONE reg at a time, and to organize their parts as they go. Don't just make an "old pile" and a "new pile". Disassemble the unit. Inspect it and it's parts. Clean it, including the plastic and non-replaced rubber parts, THEN reassemble it all at once.

If more technicians were like that, your thoughts wouldn't be as valid as they are nor a concern.

On the other side of the coin, that's not to say ALL technicians and dive shops are bad. I've seen many very impressive repair rooms and technicians as I wander the country.

 

[ew1usnr]

shrwdtech once bubbled...
that's not to say ALL technicians and dive shops are bad.

True. I did eventually find a dive shop with a knowledgeable repair technician whom I like. He's been in the business for 30 years and can spot an old regulator from across a room and say what year it is from. He services my regulators, plus my brother gives me his stuff to take to the guy as well.

 

[ABQdiver]

RiverRat once bubbled...
You guys brought up some good points, scary stuff. That's why I ordered some rebuild kits for both my Apeks regulators. snip

Where did you get Apeks rebuild kits?

 

[chrispete]

As a reg tech, I can say that I've seen some scary stuff come across my bench. Some of it has been due to (my best guess) reg techs who did an underhaul, just slapped whatever parts were in the shiny plastic bag without checking first or set the IP at 65, etc., but a lot of it has also been due to extreme neglect on the part of the owners of the regs. I can't count how many times I've *gently* warned people that their regs were in pretty bad shape due to having a bucketful of sand, standing saltwater, etc. in the works and gotten a shrug as a response.

 

[shrwdtech]

Chris,

You are more patient than I am, then. *laughing* I don't bother to tell them gently what they are doing wrong nor how to avoid it. I let them know in no uncertain terms.

I don't mind fixing their toys, and it really makes no difference to me what shape they bring them into the store in, I just don't want to read about them in the paper or on one of these chat boards.

But, you are right. I find there is less and less emphasis put on care of your gear and it's importance in dive classes I observe these days. I've also listened in on sales people in shops, both experienced and newbie sales people and I find it pretty rare any more that anybody goes over that at the point of purchase unless pressed with questions about it.

There really is no one place to point a finger at. What may be common sense to me and you with mechanical or scuba backgrounds may not be to the computer folks spending money in the stores. After all, when was the last time you heard of Bill Gates rinsing his computer after use? Silly example, I know, but now adays you can't take anything for granted, but it seems many of us do.

Okay.. going to hit the button now... let's see if I post once or twice. Have a great day!

 

[TDunbar]

Wow! I really need to get out more........ I guess we do things a little different around my shop. EVERY customer gets their replaced parts - sealed in the bag the new parts came in. They get a written report of the condition of the reg when it came in, what I did to it and, if necessary, a primer on how to avoid the repair that was required (if they caused it.) I also don't work on any equipment I'm not factory authorized to repair. I'll give you the name and number of the nearest local serviceman or ship it off for you if you want.

The liability these other folks are taking on scares the crap out of me...........

Todd