Out of air incident

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Should not have led to a panic situation as you describe. Perhaps cave diving is not for you.
I remember TS&M's popular thread about panic among experienced divers - it certainly happens and it's hard to judge what "should" and "should not" have led to a panic situation in another diver. If I recall from the thread, most couldn't have really predicted it and are embarassed when it happens. In hind site, they realize they "shouldn't" have panicked, but the mind is powerful and so is our survival instinct.

OP is embarrassed by the mistake, admitted fault, and is learning from the experience. All divers have to be able to do that, right?
 
Hi, I'm a fellow Gville area resident. (Go Gators!)
I briefly turn my stage and O2 bottle valves on to check pressure and regs, etc., but then always turn them off (keeping them charged though), when putting them into the water at the stairs. I'm one of these people that over-checks things, like checking that my valves are fully turned on four times or so before I start my dive. (Usually at the back of my car before putting my doubles on.) I also breath and/or briefly hit the purge valve after my tanks are on and right before I walk to the stairs to make sure the pressure needle doesn't drop any.
Also, while on deco on some or most dives, I practice things like switching regs with my eyes closed and doing valve shut-off drills, etc. Anything to try to help build my muscle memory.
And I've had one IPE incident with fluid in my lungs, and I never want to experience that again!
 
Thank you for sharing your experience, it does help others to learn.

One thing that was taught in our classes is doing a flow check every N minutes, I usually do them as descend and every 10-15 mins after that. This is done in addition to the checks performed on the surface.

The flow check would include checking the state of all reachable valves - backgas/isolator, charging stages/deco bottles that are not on a leash and dry suit inflation. Also an inventory of pressures on the sling cylinders and the backgas. I religiously follow this process and it does help to ensure that all the valves are ok. This ensures that you supply is all accounted for, you have not lost anything and your valves are in the position they supposed to be and the inactive stages charged at all times.
I even do it when I am on a scooter.

It might look like excessive but it became a second nature and does not take long.
 
After I re read the post, this is the part that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me…. I don't believe that the tank could fall in any way that the valve would turn enough to cause this problem..

Only thing I can think of is that the person that gave back the tank turned it off or down in handling it

Just chalk it up to an honest mistake and learn from it.
Exactly my thoughts - a person who picked it up made sure the air is off and did not accidentally got turned on during the slip - a precisely opposite to what the owner intended.

Thanks for posting that. I will soon post my mishap in the cave from last month, I am now more confident in doing so and getting the (deserved) critique.

On a side note, I had a similar situation diving my doubles in an open water setting in Bermuda. I was using one od the dive operators whose dive instructor (unbeknown to me) had a tendency to check all the clients’ tanks are open. While the tanks were still in the tank holders but with the clients attached to them already by BCD or a wing (like me with doubles), the instructor was going behind the tanks and checking if all the valves are open. This was done to my doubles and resulted in the left tank being actually closed as turning opposite direction.
I jumped into the water, took few breaths from primary and secondary (without looking at the gauge as I did same check at the boat while kitting up) and descended. Got to the bottom at about the 10m , looked at the gauge showing almost 0 bar! I instinctively unclipped myself from the harness and started ascending (with the weight belt on). I ascended with my harness and tanks in my hand as I did not want to loose the equipment. The wing was only partially inflated so I had hard time staying afloat with everything attached and shouted to the boat for help, which was dispatched.

This situation happened many dives ago and I was a fresh doubles user so inexperience made me act the way I did. If thinking clearly and not emotionally, I could have continued my dive after performing basic checks at 10m.
 
If you have water in your lungs call DAN or your doctor, it can lead to serious problems under some conditions.

I got sea water in my lungs during an incident this past July. It took two courses of antibiotics to rid me of the bad cough. An infection was confirmed by X-ray and Covid was ruled out. I had pneumonia. The first course of antibiotics was prescribed in Marathon, Florida and did little good, I kept on diving for another three weeks. The second course of antibiotics was prescribed by my doctor two weeks after return, he gave me a different, stronger prescription and the infection went away almost immediately.

If you have a cough, see a doctor.

James
 
We did our safety check and I did breath off of both cylinders prior to the dive and checked the gauges…..

Depending on the valve, how fast it opens, a quarter turn open can show no deflection when one does a breathing check. If one backs off a valve, one only needs to insure it is not backseated, which takes much less than a quarter turn, and will have a greater chance of the breathing check to work as advertised.

After a couple of incidents, I'm a slow learner, if I am not in physical control of my gear, I completely recheck it in case someone has "helped" me. On my boat trips I have a vindicator valve to dissuade help from a DM when my back is to them before exit.
 
I am 100% embarrassed that this even happened and feeling emotional about it today. I want to share what happened to me with everyone here as a learning experience and hope to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

My husband and I are dive buddies. We each have over 400 logged dives and have been diving for 7 years. We recently this year earned our Intro to Cave Diver certification from one of the best instructors in the Bahamas. We have been practicing our skills in the Cavern at Ginnie Springs for several weeks. Yesterday we went to Ginnie Springs to do our very first Cave dive in the Devils Eye by ourselves, no guide or instructor. Our first dive went well! No issues.

Getting into the water for our second dive, we placed our cylinders (side mounting) into the water on the steps going down to the water with the tank valves ON. With all the people at Ginnie Springs entering and exiting, somehow my right cylinder was kicked off the stairs and landed down on the sandy bottom. A young man in the water was kind enough to fetch it up for me and I continued to hook up for the dive.

We did our safety check and I did breath off of both cylinders prior to the dive and checked the gauges…..I DID NOT check the handles to be sure the cylinder was open all the way and herein is the error. When I took breaths off each cylinder the gauges did not move so I believed all was well.
I was able to breathe off the right regulator from the surface stairs down into the Devils Eye into the cave until 43 feet when I had no air. No indication of any problem at all until it was a problem.

This is the first time in my life that I have been so close to death…seriously panicked and thinking I’m going to die in the cave today. It’s true when you hear people say they want to bolt to the surface in a panic/out of air situation. And it’s true that your life flashes before your eyes. I’m so thankful to be alive today as I did switch to my left regulator after 2 breath cycles on getting no air out of the right cylinder. I did inhale some water into my lungs in this incident and I am still coughing today.

The lesson we learned here is to ALWAYS CHECK to be sure your air is on prior to descending. I made an assumption based on my watching my gauges breathing from each cylinder on the surface and it could have cost me my life. Apparently, when my cylinder rolled off the stair, and upon retrieval of it, the handle rolled off enough to cut off my air supply at depth. It was breathing fine up until 43 feet. And believe me, the element of surprise at 43 feet deep in an overhead environment can be deadly.
This was a true lesson for life for me and my husband. I will be a better cave diver for it. Lesson learned.
Nothing like that , but its amazing what can catch you out . My partner diving with me in Red Sea last week with new 4 Element suit , with the neck collar flap . Dive went fine , no problems , got to safety stop at 5m - 3minutes , after that she could not breathe , popped to surface , threw her regs and fins , could not get a breath ! Seems collar just too tight and had not noticed breathing ( compressed ) air at depth but on surface restricted massively ! Collar got trimmed right back after that ! K
 
I am 100% embarrassed that this even happened and feeling emotional about it today. I want to share what happened to me with everyone here as a learning experience and hope to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

My husband and I are dive buddies. We each have over 400 logged dives and have been diving for 7 years. We recently this year earned our Intro to Cave Diver certification from one of the best instructors in the Bahamas. We have been practicing our skills in the Cavern at Ginnie Springs for several weeks. Yesterday we went to Ginnie Springs to do our very first Cave dive in the Devils Eye by ourselves, no guide or instructor. Our first dive went well! No issues.

Getting into the water for our second dive, we placed our cylinders (side mounting) into the water on the steps going down to the water with the tank valves ON. With all the people at Ginnie Springs entering and exiting, somehow my right cylinder was kicked off the stairs and landed down on the sandy bottom. A young man in the water was kind enough to fetch it up for me and I continued to hook up for the dive.

We did our safety check and I did breath off of both cylinders prior to the dive and checked the gauges…..I DID NOT check the handles to be sure the cylinder was open all the way and herein is the error. When I took breaths off each cylinder the gauges did not move so I believed all was well.
I was able to breathe off the right regulator from the surface stairs down into the Devils Eye into the cave until 43 feet when I had no air. No indication of any problem at all until it was a problem.

This is the first time in my life that I have been so close to death…seriously panicked and thinking I’m going to die in the cave today. It’s true when you hear people say they want to bolt to the surface in a panic/out of air situation. And it’s true that your life flashes before your eyes. I’m so thankful to be alive today as I did switch to my left regulator after 2 breath cycles on getting no air out of the right cylinder. I did inhale some water into my lungs in this incident and I am still coughing today.

The lesson we learned here is to ALWAYS CHECK to be sure your air is on prior to descending. I made an assumption based on my watching my gauges breathing from each cylinder on the surface and it could have cost me my life. Apparently, when my cylinder rolled off the stair, and upon retrieval of it, the handle rolled off enough to cut off my air supply at depth. It was breathing fine up until 43 feet. And believe me, the element of surprise at 43 feet deep in an overhead environment can be deadly.
This was a true lesson for life for me and my husband. I will be a better cave diver for it. Lesson learned.
It takes a strong person to admit mistakes and learn from them. I am glad you are fine. You're the kind of person, I'd like to dive with.
Enjoy your dives.
 
I am 100% embarrassed that this even happened and feeling emotional about it today. I want to share what happened to me with everyone here as a learning experience and hope to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

My husband and I are dive buddies. We each have over 400 logged dives and have been diving for 7 years. We recently this year earned our Intro to Cave Diver certification from one of the best instructors in the Bahamas. We have been practicing our skills in the Cavern at Ginnie Springs for several weeks. Yesterday we went to Ginnie Springs to do our very first Cave dive in the Devils Eye by ourselves, no guide or instructor. Our first dive went well! No issues.

Getting into the water for our second dive, we placed our cylinders (side mounting) into the water on the steps going down to the water with the tank valves ON. With all the people at Ginnie Springs entering and exiting, somehow my right cylinder was kicked off the stairs and landed down on the sandy bottom. A young man in the water was kind enough to fetch it up for me and I continued to hook up for the dive.

We did our safety check and I did breath off of both cylinders prior to the dive and checked the gauges…..I DID NOT check the handles to be sure the cylinder was open all the way and herein is the error. When I took breaths off each cylinder the gauges did not move so I believed all was well.
I was able to breathe off the right regulator from the surface stairs down into the Devils Eye into the cave until 43 feet when I had no air. No indication of any problem at all until it was a problem.

This is the first time in my life that I have been so close to death…seriously panicked and thinking I’m going to die in the cave today. It’s true when you hear people say they want to bolt to the surface in a panic/out of air situation. And it’s true that your life flashes before your eyes. I’m so thankful to be alive today as I did switch to my left regulator after 2 breath cycles on getting no air out of the right cylinder. I did inhale some water into my lungs in this incident and I am still coughing today.

The lesson we learned here is to ALWAYS CHECK to be sure your air is on prior to descending. I made an assumption based on my watching my gauges breathing from each cylinder on the surface and it could have cost me my life. Apparently, when my cylinder rolled off the stair, and upon retrieval of it, the handle rolled off enough to cut off my air supply at depth. It was breathing fine up until 43 feet. And believe me, the element of surprise at 43 feet deep in an overhead environment can be deadly.
This was a true lesson for life for me and my husband. I will be a better cave diver for it. Lesson learned.
Glad it ended up ok, and if it helps at all, it's something many of us have done.

As I read your post, something that I tend to harp on when teaching technical, public safety and Instructor programs (including cave, sidemount and a bunch of other instructor programs) is that I have seen FAR too many accident reports and near miss posts like yours where something easily handled becomes truly a life threatening situation. I have no question that you have done valve drills many times in training. But without the construct of expecting to have to do one, it rocked your world, and as you said "nearly killed you".

This is a comfort issue, more specifically it is a lack of the confidence that you can deal with whatever happens using your skills you learned along the way. The why may be because once you "mastered" a skill in training you moved forward and never developed what we commonly call "muscle memory" but when it comes to specifically a sudden unexpected lack of gas delivery it's most often simply panic.

If you want to fix this so you can handle this with zero panic and not even any drama, you need to learn and be confident that you ALWAYS have at least full minute to sort out the issue even with no gas. In other words, that you can hold your breath a minute after you exhaled.

Go take a freediving course, even if you aren't the image of a young athlete, you don't need to be, you will be an amazingly more safe diver. You will develop the skills and experience of breath holding that gives you the confidence that with a fully redundant system such as sidemount/doubles you will be easily able to hold your breath as you sort the issue if one reg stops giving you gas.

The other thing that will make you a safer diver is take a real equipment repair class, once you understand the equipment you are using better, your decision making and comfort level will greatly increase

I ask my students to learn this, and ask my instructors to teach this, IT WILL save lives.

I grew up on a lake with an older brother trying to drown me almost daily during the summer, on the swim team thru Jr High and first year of HS and been diving since 13. Now, 41 years later, older, fatter and in beat up and put away wet shape with a mostly on smoking habit (life stress and I smoke) can still hold my breath for 2+ minutes. Virtually everyone without some lung condition can learn to comfortably hold breath for a minute.

I promise you, what you went thru regards panic and breathing some water would have not happened had you been more comfortable in the water with holding your breath
 
I see far too many divers "sip" their air during their pre-dive checks, afraid of using up too much of their precious air before diving. Any diver diving with me, I make sure they take a couple of deep full breaths off their reg while watching gauges.
THIS

plus, make sure it includes exhale, some do the sip and don't exhale, it's worthless. Do full breath, do a half dozen of them to test regs
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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