Out of air emergency at 105 feet

[Web Monkey]

looking back at the graph thank goodness this happened at the begining of the dive.

You did 100' in 8 minutes, which is 12.5'/minute and considerably slower than the 30'/minute suggested ascent speed.

It was a very nice ascent and I wouldn't worry about it.

Terry

 

[paddler3d]

There are a lot of reasons to consider omitting any stops when escorting an OOG diver to the surface, and very few reasons to insist on completing them.

But they as a team had enough gas to safely complete the safety stop. Someone above did the math and there was plenty of gas.

Sorry nuts4corals, but maybe he did a greater disservice to the OOA DM by not simply holding on to this BC and making the two of them finish the safety stop.

I've got my DAN magazine upstairs somewhere and they did the whole study on the safety stop and my impression of the article was that you should always do a safety stop. It is like riding a motorcycle w/o a helmet. Some states don't require you wear one. Does it means it is safe or wise not to?

 

[Web Monkey]

Let me put it to you this way... I can't get the guys wide open/ panicked eyes out of my head. interestingly I remember feeling as if he was composed at the start of the ascend as soon as he received air. but than at around 40 feet it was as if he wasn't purging his BCD or fining a bit quicker than befor.

FWIW, once someone has screwed up badly enough to need to share air, you can't count on any of their mental processes working correctly. In fact, running out of air is an indication that they're in fact, not thinking clearly or have something else going on.

If this happens again, and you think you're ascending too quickly, feel free to do whatever you feel necessary to slow your ascent. In fact with a panicked/nearly panicked diver, they probably won't even notice if you pull a dump valve on their BC. This may be necessary in the case of full-blown panic where the victim is mashing the "Up Button" and taking you with him. There isn't an inflater in the world that can keep up with a dump valve, so you can always control the ascent.

Also, although this is just a personal rule, I never give anybody more than one chance at a Darwin Award on a single dive. If someone needs "rescuing" of one flavor or another, the event isn't over until they're back on the boat and the boat crew is handling things.

Terry

 

[ScubaSteve]

If the diver was in fact panicked or close to panic, I believe that a forced safety stop likely would have increased the risk of further incident than decreased it. If they were panicked, holding onto their BC and trying to hold them underwater would just elevate their panic level and thus possibly causing them to act irrationaly (more so). When there was no mention of panic, I was of the impression that the safety stop was a good idea, but panic in a diver below the surface is a dangerous thing and obviously (from what I've read anyways) this DM was not capable of properly handling the emergency.

Just my 2 cents

 

[nuts4corals]

But they as a team had enough gas to safely complete the safety stop. Someone above did the math and there was plenty of gas.

Sorry nuts4corals, but maybe he did a greater disservice to the OOA DM by not simply holding on to this BC and making the two of them finish the safety stop.

I've got my DAN magazine upstairs somewhere and they did the whole study on the safety stop and my impression of the article was that you should always do a safety stop. It is like riding a motorcycle w/o a helmet. Some states don't require you wear one. Does it means it is safe or wise not to?

you make a good point however i would challenge you to try and hold on to someone in water with a buoyant BCD... i don't care if you are superman, you can't do it. I'm an above average build and he was smaller than me and if he wanted to surface us both he could have by inflating air in his BCD. In fact I just purchased an emergency buoy that i practiced deploying on this vacation... i learned a quick lesson on my first try... Don't over-inflate it if you plan on winding it back down to you. I simply couldn't do it and it was not completely full at the surface...but than i do have a fairly large buoy. I was only at 45 feet at the time. you don't realize how forcefully air is underwater until you try and hold on to it. Try it, you'll see.

 

[paddler3d]

you make a good point however i would challenge you to try and hold on to someone in water with a buoyant BCD... i don't care if you are superman, you can't do it. I'm an above average build and he was smaller than me and if he wanted to surface us both he could have by inflating air in his BCD. In fact I just purchased an emergency buoy that i practiced deploying on this vacation... i learned a quick lesson on my first try... Don't over-inflate it if you plan on winding it back down to you. I simply couldn't do it and it was not completely full at the surface...but than i do have a fairly large buoy. I was only at 45 feet at the time. you don't realize how forcefully air is underwater until you try and hold on to it. Try it, you'll see.

I know, I've tried. It is hard to fight physics.

I'm just surprised about how many folks will blow the safety stop. And I'm not saying that you blow or will blow or do blow your safety stops.

 

[Gombessa]

I'm just surprised about how many folks will blow the safety stop. And I'm not saying that you blow or will blow or do blow your safety stops.

It's definitely a cost-benefit analysis. I've never (intentionally) blown a stop, and if the dive is anything close to as-planned, I probably never will. But given a serious situation which has the potential to become a full-blown emergency, keeping a recreational safety stop isn't really high on my priority list.

Note that there are some very experienced and divers (like TS&M, Lamont, Thal and others) responding here who are doing deco dives, have training in deco theory and actually have the interest to read the studies and research on the subject (way beyond the scope of our conversation here), and when they talk about skipping stops or omitting deco, it's a pretty serious and well-thought-out and debated subject for them. They're not just relying on an OW book or instructor that says "Always do your stops!"

I don't think anyone is advocating that safety stops be abolished or ignored here, but in the given situation, does it make sense to assume that they will do a calm and orderly CESA if you try to forcefully keep them down or take away the reg? I imagine they would either bolt for the surface (a high probability of AGE), mug you for your reg (potentially ripping your primary regulator and mask off your face), hold onto your octo and drag you to the surface at a high rate of speed, or panic in some other irrational and unpredictable way. Any of those outcomes to me is far worse than a controlled, steady air-share ascent to the surface while bypassing an optional stop.

 

[Walter]

But they as a team had enough gas to safely complete the safety stop.

True and ideally they would have done so, but this wasn't an ideal situation. The best course of action, in this case, was to ascend with the OOA diver and get him safely on the boat.

 

[FredT]

Strangely enough I agree with Walter. Tissue gas loading should be less than 50% of critical with that curve, even assuming a night dive the day before.

A bends hit is generally easily treatable in Coz, even if you bend a bunch of divers on one dive. If I remember correctly Walter was on the dive almost a decade ago that still holds the record for most divers bent off Santa Rosa wall in a single dive group. (At least I hope it's still the record. A worse dive is not something I'd like to contemplate.) Busted lungs are much more of a problem to treat, which is the probable bad result of a diver abandoned below the surface with no air.

Once another diver is sucking on one of your hoses, you don't leave them until either that diver is safely on the boat, or your death will obviously be the result of continuing the rescue attempt and you are forced to abandon them to Mother Ocean. Being bent is NOT dead. If necessary to save a life, take the hit. In a non-technical recreational dive situation a DCS hit generally won't kill you.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

But they as a team had enough gas to safely complete the safety stop. Someone above did the math and there was plenty of gas.

Sorry nuts4corals, but maybe he did a greater disservice to the OOA DM by not simply holding on to this BC and making the two of them finish the safety stop.

I've got my DAN magazine upstairs somewhere and they did the whole study on the safety stop and my impression of the article was that you should always do a safety stop. It is like riding a motorcycle w/o a helmet. Some states don't require you wear one. Does it means it is safe or wise not to?

paddler3d:

I could not disagree more with the statement in red.

You are really suggesting physically forcing an OOA diver you've just finished saving to stay underwater to complete an optional stop?? After the OOA diver has signaled he wants to surface? Without knowing whether the OOA diver is having some other problem?

With respect and all the politeness I can muster: Phhhhhffft!!!! Bad, bad idea. If the OOA diver seems fine, and agrees to the safety stop, great idea. If the diver wants to surface, go up together. There is no way you can know if the diver is having a health problem, having trouble with the octo, whatever.

Research the history of the "safety stop". It is not a mandatory deco stop. It is a great idea for most dives, but in an emergency situation? Again: Phhhhhfftt!

Even with a true deco obligation I'd get the OOA diver to the surface (if he was signaling to surface), and deal with the possible hit rather than deal with a drowning or embolism.

The OP did exactly the right thing in this situation.

Best wishes.