Our responsibilities as divers

[peterbj7]

Not sure where this should be, but this area seems as good as any and better than most.

When we dive, is it acceptable to regard ourselves as unaccountable to others for our actions? This question has been prompted by the discussion of the death of Cory but needs to be considered far more generally. Can we say (for example) that we're diving alone, don't need any assistance, and don't accept that we have any responsibility to others? Is it reasonable when diving from a boat to "do our own thing" regardless of what others regard as safe and acceptable? If I want to go for a deep night dive alone (as I have done) and not tell anyone about it, is that OK? If people go looking for me and put themselves at risk is that anyone's responsibility but their own?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not sure where this should be, but this area seems as good as any and better than most.

When we dive, is it acceptable to regard ourselves as unaccountable to others for our actions? This question has been prompted by the discussion of the death of Cory but needs to be considered far more generally. Can we say (for example) that we're diving alone, don't need any assistance, and don't accept that we have any responsibility to others? Is it reasonable when diving from a boat to "do our own thing" regardless of what others regard as safe and acceptable? If I want to go for a deep night dive alone (as I have done) and not tell anyone about it, is that OK? If people go looking for me and put themselves at risk is that anyone's responsibility but their own?

That's like asking, "Don't I have the right to say what I want, whenever I want?"

Sure ya do ... within limits.

Rights always come with responsibilities ... the two are inseparable. They have to be ... you don't live on this planet alone, and your rights extend right up to the point where your exercise of them infringes on other people.

To answer your last question ... no. People put themselves at risk for others because that's what people of good conscience do. It's part of the cost ... and expectation ... of living in a society. If you want to go out doing a deep night dive alone and not tell anyone about it, then it's only OK if you've made it clear to others beforehand that should you go missing you don't want anyone to come looking for you. Otherwise, the responsible thing for others to do is to come looking ... and if your lack of concern for others results in a $250,000 rescue effort or the injury or death of another person then yep, I would say you are responsible for that.

Freedom never means that you get to do any damn thing you want to do ... as long as you choose to live in the company of other humans, there will ALWAYS be limits on your choices ... because everything you do will have SOME impact on someone else, and there is always a responsibility to consider how your actions will affect those people.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[diverdowndh]

Nicely put Bob!

 

[Garrobo]

If you go on a night dive, by yourself and die while doing it, you have only responsibility for yourself. If someone else in injured or dies looking for your sorry a** it is their responsibility to be safe while doing it whether they are a private citizen or part of a municipal rescue team.

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

To magnify what Bob said so well.

I learned in the military that there is an unwritten code that you never leave a man behind. You will put your life in peril to save someone elses life because you know they will do the same for you. As new as I am to diving (not even wet behind the ears yet) I can see a similar culture for the same reason. As Bob said, you have the responsibility to at the very least break the contract before doing something that would lead others to put themselves at risk for you if you are going to dive outside the box so to speak. But, at that point I still think what you do puts others at risk because there are those that will refuse to allow that contract to be broken no matter what you say or do, it's just who they are. So, IMO as part of the diving community (a membership you agree to by diving with others) your actions will always affect others.

 

[covediver]

I will refer those interested to the collected works of Rod Nash, Professor of History at UC Santa Barbara, who spent a good portion of his career writing on wilderness and America. As he pointed out in lectures, "wilderness" implies man in nature, not in the relatively safe confines of "civilization." Dying is a distinct possibility in nature and we are left to our own devices to prevent this. No one who ventures into wilderness should have the expectation of the right to be rescued nor should any others have the obligation to rescue for these are the realities of civilization not of wilderness.

 

[Papa Steve]

That's like asking, "Don't I have the right to say what I want, whenever I want?"

Sure ya do ... within limits.

Rights always come with responsibilities ... the two are inseparable. They have to be ... you don't live on this planet alone, and your rights extend right up to the point where your exercise of them infringes on other people.

To answer your last question ... no. People put themselves at risk for others because that's what people of good conscience do. It's part of the cost ... and expectation ... of living in a society. If you want to go out doing a deep night dive alone and not tell anyone about it, then it's only OK if you've made it clear to others beforehand that should you go missing you don't want anyone to come looking for you. Otherwise, the responsible thing for others to do is to come looking ... and if your lack of concern for others results in a $250,000 rescue effort or the injury or death of another person then yep, I would say you are responsible for that.

Freedom never means that you get to do any damn thing you want to do ... as long as you choose to live in the company of other humans, there will ALWAYS be limits on your choices ... because everything you do will have SOME impact on someone else, and there is always a responsibility to consider how your actions will affect those people.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Very well said, Bob.
A practical example: Who wouldn't go looking for their son who made a irresponsible choice? Under most any conditions and at most any cost?

 

[Melicertes]

That's like asking, "Don't I have the right to say what I want, whenever I want?"

Sure ya do ... within limits.

Rights always come with responsibilities ... the two are inseparable. They have to be ... you don't live on this planet alone, and your rights extend right up to the point where your exercise of them infringes on other people.

To answer your last question ... no. People put themselves at risk for others because that's what people of good conscience do. It's part of the cost ... and expectation ... of living in a society. If you want to go out doing a deep night dive alone and not tell anyone about it, then it's only OK if you've made it clear to others beforehand that should you go missing you don't want anyone to come looking for you. Otherwise, the responsible thing for others to do is to come looking ... and if your lack of concern for others results in a $250,000 rescue effort or the injury or death of another person then yep, I would say you are responsible for that.

Freedom never means that you get to do any damn thing you want to do ... as long as you choose to live in the company of other humans, there will ALWAYS be limits on your choices ... because everything you do will have SOME impact on someone else, and there is always a responsibility to consider how your actions will affect those people.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Very well put Bob. I wish more people on this planet, not just in diving circles, would realize this truth. I think the world would be a much more peaceful place if everyone would take a long hard look at what exactly it is that one considers a right and what is a privilege of living within a particular society. And before anyone goes on about societies being different depending on where you look for them, consider the fact that despite the fact that cultures differ from region to region, we still all make up part of a larger global society that lives together with one another on this rock.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I will refer those interested to the collected works of Rod Nash, Professor of History at UC Santa Barbara, who spent a good portion of his career writing on wilderness and America. As he pointed out in lectures, "wilderness" implies man in nature, not in the relatively safe confines of "civilization." Dying is a distinct possibility in nature and we are left to our own devices to prevent this. No one who ventures into wilderness should have the expectation of the right to be rescued nor should any others have the obligation to rescue for these are the realities of civilization not of wilderness.

Well, first off, I think that ignores the realities of societal expectation and human nature ... which have a huge influence on all of our decision-making abilities. One of the major underlying reasons why we live as societal creatures is for mutual protection. It's part of our "wiring" ... so to speak.

Secondly, the OP asked, specifically, about diving off a boat. That doesn't imply "wilderness" to me.

Third, even if he meant wilderness, rescues of people who venture off into the wilderness occur regularly ... we see it all the time with hikers, skiers, snowmobilers, sailors, and others who venture off into less civilized places. Those rescues are often a costly venture ... and are paid for out of public funds. So I disagree with the professor ... the expectation is there, whether it's wanted or not. What do you suppose the response would be ... both from the public, and more specifically from the family of the person in need of rescue ... if it wasn't offered or attempted?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mikejclark]

Just had to say that I strongly agree with Sinbad as myself am Military and my mindseet is the same.