Ooa ?

[dlarbale]

OK does someone want to list the main points of good buddy skills from the DIRF so that I can compare it to what I currently do.

No DIR folks here in Australia and alot of DIR bashing occurs for what I have found to be no apparent reason.

Also, what gives on the diving courses? Form what I've experienced so far there's no standard signals taught for comunicating air supply. Surely there should be some standard for this purpose - if I ask someone their air I don't just want an OK signal as a response, and I don't want people flashing signs at me for 'Tour' that I normally use for 'half tank'. Anyone know of plans to standardise this important aspect?

Later - Dave.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
You need to get out more!

No kidding Mike!

Well I do run in a pretty small circle and there are no caves up here in the PNW...

So the only good buddy skills I have ever seen have been DIR divers...

That is not to say that there aren't any non-DIR divers who have good buddy skills... I just haven't seen any here...

What agencies teach good buddy skills outside of cave country?

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by dlarbale
OK does someone want to list the main points of good buddy skills from the DIRF so that I can compare it to what I currently do.

Also, what gives on the diving courses? Form what I've experienced so far there's no standard signals taught for comunicating air supply.

Well good buddy skills come under the heading teamwork and necessitate teambuilding and are aquired through teamdiving.

Teamwork starts in the planning stages of the dive. I could detail all the areas of a dive that need to be planned such as mission, logistics, safety, gas, ect. but for the average recreational dive it needn't be so complex. But at least the parameters of the dive itself are planned and that includes gas management.

Because as good buddies we plan gas management together before the dive I need not inquire of my buddy what his SPG reads during the dive since the turn pressure for each of us has been worked out already. It is my buddy's responsibility to monitor his own SPG and I monitor mine. Usually we can tell within 50~100 before looking.

Of course if I am curious I can tell what his SPG reads close enough by reading my own SPG since we train together.

 

[omar]

An *Intense OOA drill* involves a shared air ascent with lost mask, one partner controlling both buoyancies to the gas switch and then making
the gas switch for yourself and your partner, and hitting, sticking and timing the stops because you have a deco obligation.... while trying to get a lift bag out and up...

Hmmm.... switch to deco mix without eye contact? What is the plan when the guy with the mask has a problem as a result of the gas switch? Or do you start the deco mix shallower to minimize the risk?

omar

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by omar
Hmmm.... switch to deco mix without eye contact? What is the plan when the guy with the mask has a problem as a result of the gas switch? Or do you start the deco mix shallower to minimize the risk?

In the real world you have a back up mask... in a drill you do the scenario...

What problem are you suggesting Omar...
Get specific.

 

[omar]

Pug

oxtox from switching to hi PPO2 mix

omar

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by omar
oxtox from switching to hi PPO2 mix

1. If you are referring to switching to the wrong gas (say O2 at the 70 foot stop) - that is why you train together and you develop a team where you can depend upon your buddy to make the right switch for you. It is better for me to trust Shane to pick the bottle if I have no mask than to trust myself... while I might be able to see the MOD markings I can't read my depth gauge. Would I trust just anybody? Nooooo... and that is why team building is the foundation of good buddy skills.

2. If you are referring to switching to the right gas (say 50/50 at the 70 foot stop) but sinking below the 70' MOD - that is where good buoyancy skills are a must for both of you and practice with no mask ascents is important. Have you ever tried controlling buoyancy for both divers? Has you buddy ever tried this?? Are you diving deco dives???

BTW oxtox isn't going to hit you immeadiately is it if you momentarily plug the wrong gas in or slip below the MOD momentarily?

Skipping stops or deleting deco gases is probably a greater danger wouldn't you think?

 

[omar]

1. Nope not to the wrong gas. I agree that practice with your buddy to paramount to diver safety.

2. I am not worried about an immediate hit or bouncing around the stop in this scenario. I have not tried controlling buoyancy for both divers, obviously something that I should practice. Deco dives - yes, but I have backed off after recognizing my limitations at this time.

The point is: even when selecting the right gas 50/50@70 or 100@20 you can experience a hit. Case in point is Becky of the VB tech folks just a few months ago. Did every thing right but still got a hit. Her buddy saved her ass. Once again underlining the need of good buddy skills. This is not a falling meteorite type of scenario. It is real.

The question is what is the best way to deal with this possibility with only one mask? Who is going to watch/monitor the guy with the mask?

Is the best course of action in this scenario to modify your deco or hope that you don't get a hit?

You can go to 50/50 at a shallower depth with the attendent increase in time to minimize the risk or ?

Also, I would strongly think about not using 100% at 20 if I had plenty of 50/50 (you should).

Sharing the mask is not a viable option either.

omar

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by omar
The point is: even when selecting the right gas 50/50@70 or 100@20 you can experience a hit. Case in point is Becky of the VB tech folks just a few months ago. Did every thing right but still got a hit. Her buddy saved her ass. Once again underlining the need of good buddy skills. This is not a falling meteorite type of scenario. It is real.

OK... on small dives the chance of a oxtox at 1.6 PO2 is a meteor hit...
On big dives with substantial O2 exposures you go back to the team concept... your support divers are meeting you at the gas switch stop and of course will supply the missing mask... which in reality you were carrying in your left pocket anyway... this was just one of those *intense* OOA drill examples.

 

[omar]

... this was just one of those *intense* OOA drill examples.

no kidding, I spent the last hour while swimming at lunch going over all of the variables that 1 guy would have to deal with. I managed to lose track of my laps in the process. This scenario really brings home the need for support divers for the big stuff.

I have done buddy drills with no mask & air share, following a line that went from 45 to 30 to 45 during an IANTD Advanced EANx class. But we did frequent pauses to get our buoyancy right. Never tried to adjust the others.

more food for thought

omar