OOA at 60 feet

[AlexL]

I don't think it's nitpicking, and I don't think it's GUE either.

its not, and its not. GUE min deco and min gas planning do not include safety stops; min deco clears any incurred ceilings via slowing the ascent rate at half max depth, and min gas is planned on that slow ascent rate through the entire ascent. following those rules, ascent would have been started at around minute 15, almost 10 minutes before the OOA, and before the increase in depth to 75ft.

We do not really know how fast OP was sucking air and how calm he was.

OP posted their profile with air consumption two pages prior: OOA at 60 feet. seems like task loading went up considerably on the second half of the dive due to the flooded mask, SAC skyrocketed, and proceeded to breathe the tank empty.

 

[barth]

No the wrong solution is trying to stay down to do a safety stop and dying on the way up. Dead people don't learn anything.

Don't try to slamdunk GUE procedures into the OP. Of course good gas planning, situational awareness (watching your gas consumption and that of your buddy) is needed. He already understands that and mentioned that in his OP.

But nitpicking on little details isn't. He has 15 dives under his belt.

To pnwbred. A couple of additional pointers I want to make. I won't go into the gasplanning and awareness because you already know that you need to regularly check your pressure gauge.

- You are always responsible for your own safety first. Meaning that you need to point out to your buddies whenever you are uncomfortable with a current situation or feeling a bit stressed. Being on your first liveaboard could be such a situation, doing your first 80-100ft dive could be such a situation (don't know if this is the case... just making a point). You are responsible to make others aware... also underwater. Maybe you were a bit stressed and this impacted your SAC (air consumption) as well.

- You correctly identified that the flooding mask might have been part of the issue. You need to be aware that small stuff like this can escalade into bigger things. You should try to ID and approach small stuff underwater with a "fix now" mentality. Meaning stop and try to fix it before continuing the dive. If it's not fixable underwater (your mask kept flooding) it might be the right approach to communicate this to your buddy, maybe he can help (maybe it's just the hood that is under the mask)... if it's not fixable you can decide to make the dive more conservative (go shallower) or even abort the dive.

Thanks for posting man... it takes balls to do that.

I'm not telling the topic starter to follow gue procedures. I did just told what my solution would be.

The topicstarter did already told that the accent was to fast. I do agree with that. I do agee with you that it would be beter to get to the surface than die without gas.

But I still think ascending with 90 feet/ minute is to fast. I did not told the topicstarter that he should have done a safetystop. That is his choice/decision.

I did just told what I would have done and that ascending with 90 feet is wrong. Even my own padi rdp says max ascent speed is 60 feet / minute.

I don't understand that other people are telling that he did the right thing when he ascent with 90 feet / minute. I do understand that you will choose it in some situations. But to fast ascending can create new problems. What if it would happen at 100 feet and he would be at the surface after 1 minute. Would that also also be the right decision?

I also don't understand that other people are telling with an ooa you must skip the safetystop with a rec dive. If you have enough gas and can do a safety stop that would be ok.

 

[RainPilot]

Couple of random thoughts:

You can't breathe water.

You can get mild DCS, you don't get mild drowning.

Within NDL means you can surface without any stops.

Safety stops are nice to have, breathing gas is a must have.

Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance (5P)

Rock Bottom gas planning means never having to say you are sorry.

It's easy to type the correct answer when you don't need to worry where your next breath is coming from.

One big scare is worth a thousand theoretical lectures.

 

[beester]

I'm not telling the topic starter to follow gue procedures. I did just told what my solution would be.

The topicstarter did already told that the accent was to fast. I do agree with that. I do agee with you that it would be beter to get to the surface than die without gas.

But I still think ascending with 90 feet/ minute is to fast. I did not told the topicstarter that he should have done a safetystop. That is his choice/decision.

I did just told what I would have done and that ascending with 90 feet is wrong. Even my own padi rdp says max ascent speed is 60 feet / minute.

I don't understand that other people are telling that he did the right thing when he ascent with 90 feet / minute. I do understand that you will choose it in some situations. But to fast ascending can create new problems. What if it would happen at 100 feet and he would be at the surface after 1 minute. Would that also also be the right decision?

I also don't understand that other people are telling with an ooa you must skip the safetystop with a rec dive. If you have enough gas and can do a safety stop that would be ok.

Hey Bart... for sure no discussion that a safety stop and a slower ascend would be ideal scenario. It would mitigate a lot of the risk involved. However you are talking from a tech background where all of this (both in gas planning, executing the ascend even during gas sharing, etc) are a given.

Before I was a GUE diver I had an incident which was although not totally similar also involved a gas sharing ascend with an almost OOA diver. I can tell you that ideal scenarios are not always possible, so that's why I'm focusing not on ideal but on cause and effect.

The OP has 15 dives in, so although it's good to tell him that his ascend was too fast and he should have completed a safety stop, the most important points he should take from this are:

- WELL DONE for having the courage to post this. And have other beginners and not so beginners learn from this.
- AWARENESS: Keep track of your air consumption and try to be more aware of your status, your surroundings, your buddy.
- ESCALATION OF EVENTS: Be aware that small events, like an ill fitting mask can escalate and cause bigger issues. Try to stop and fix before you continue the dive and make your buddy aware that you have an issue.

That's all.

 

[fsardone]

... the most important points he should take from this are:

- WELL DONE for having the courage to post this. And have other beginners and not so beginners learn from this.
- AWARENESS: Keep track of your air consumption and try to be more aware of your status, your surroundings, your buddy.
- ESCALATION OF EVENTS: Be aware that small events, like an ill fitting mask can escalate and cause bigger issues. Try to stop and fix before you continue the dive and make your buddy aware that you have an issue.

That's all.

Fully and wholeheartedly agree.
The outcome of the dive was positive. The level of experience could have meant way worse .... self criticising is a path to improvement.
Well done!

 

[Dizzi Lizzi]

This experience will make you a safer diver because you analyzed it and asked others for imput and are open to suggestions. My 1st real lesson was at dive #12 (post cert) I posted mine also and got alot of great feedback. It was scary and a couple of times I got a little annoyed at people, but that was just ego getting in the way. Have fun and continue to
dive safe!

 

[bergersau]

pwnbred
It's easy for everyone to be armchair critics when you put yourself up in public like this.

You've made a few mistakes and had a learning experience.
You also got enough right that both you and your buddy are still here to analyze what happened and learn from your (mis)adventure.
You've only 15 or so dives under your belt, so you're going to make mistakes. That's OK, it's one of the way's we learn. Just make sure you don't overextend yourself to a point where you can't recover from your mistakes while you're learning. You probably gained more experience on that one dive than the previous 5 dives combined.

Work up to deep dives progressively over time.
Watch your gauges.
Keep building experience.

 

[pnwbred]

Few more dives since the OOA in Catalina... I did Titan 1 missile silo dive last weekend... I'm alot more attentive to my air, depth now. I have a new mask that does not leak, so that issue should no longer be an issue. It was a huge part of my air consumption.. Small issue, that became a bigger one.

I also have been doing dives with various steel pony tanks since I'm still an air hog. The goal is never to use it, but its there in case. Renting for now, but will prolly buy a 30cu tank later on..

I'm not talking to my buddies more, going over EP's, gear and everything else before we get into the water.

Thanks again for everyone's comments, concerns and feedback!

 

[Freewillow]

I believe that the HUGE - 20 meters in half a minute! - ascent rate is much worse that the absence of a Safety Stop.