One dead at Cow Springs - Live Oak, FL

[steinbil]

I think we are agreeing, with the exception of one quick attempt to disconnect before isolating the right post. You will then be able to disconnect in slow time and turn the right post back on. This is the doubles protocol, but similar procedures in SM.

Ok, all good. I guess I was just confused by the term "isolate", since on doubles that would indicate to me shutting the isolator instead of the right post.

LPI is darn near instant. With a fully open valve, I can't see the times being even close.

To be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with disconnected as a first response. Just that if you can't and have to manipulate valves, I would go straight for the right post and not the isolator.

 

[cerich]

The protocol I use/teach now is to make one very quick attempt to disconnect, and if that does not work immediately fin down whilst isolating the cylinder and dumping gas.

I am a big fan of how The Human Diver - Counter-errorism in Diving - Home Page discusses this sort of decision making in an intelligent and non-judgemental way. Very interesting to learn about why we as humans make poor decisions.

I think on balance, outcomes will be consistently better if you reversed the order (unless significantly overweighted, but there should be redundant buoyancy anyhow either drysuit. extra bladder).

I can not stress enough how some warm water only instructors underestimate how difficult some stuff is in cold water, like disconnecting a qd hose and the studet getting training in warm water but doing diving in cold will revert to training, when it may not be the most likely to work route. Your second route will work, the first ..sometimes, so why not do what you know will work first?

 

[lermontov]

I think on balance, outcomes will be consistently better if you reversed the order (unless significantly overweighted, but there should be redundant buoyancy anyhow either drysuit. extra bladder).

I can not stress enough how some warm water only instructors underestimate how difficult some stuff is in cold water, like disconnecting a qd hose and the studet getting training in warm water but doing diving in cold will revert to training, when it may not be the most likely to work route. Your second route will work, the first ..sometimes, so why not do what you know will work first?

That is certainly the case when you transfer from tropical to cold it takes a few dive to readjust -however it behoves the diver to adapt to the conditions they are diving in, cant really blame any one for inadequacies -if your a technical diver esp cave, one would expect a higher than average level of forethought

 

[cerich]

That is certainly the case when you transfer from tropical to cold it takes a few dive to readjust -however it behoves the diver to adapt to the conditions they are diving in, cant really blame any one for inadequacies -if your a technical diver esp cave, one would expect a higher than average level of forethought

Well, gonna have to disagree as IMHO the instructor should take into consideration this kind of stuff and not just feel the student should be able to figure out whenever

An instructor MUST understand the law of primacy

Teach not understanding that and you ARE setting your student up for FAILURE in real life situations (as in could kill them)

Otherwise, is it an instructor teaching or just some dude collecting a certification tax to give someone a c card?

Maybe I have been doing this too long, I always felt that teaching tech was a serious responsibility that required me to not just show and evaluate skills but also goals, education, and culture in my students. So they have a better chance at staying alive

Yours, TDI instr #17

 

[lermontov]

Well, gonna have to disagree as IMHO the instructor should take into consideration this kind of stuff and not just feel the student should be able to figure out whenever

An instructor MUST understand the law of primacy

Teach not understanding that and you ARE setting your student up for FAILURE in real life situations (as in could kill them)

Otherwise, is it an instructor teaching or just some dude collecting a certification tax to give someone a c card?

Maybe I have been doing this too long, I always felt that teaching tech was a serious responsibility that required me to not just show and evaluate skills but also goals, education, and culture in my students. So they have a better chance at staying alive

Yours, TDI instr #17

i wont disagree with your post but were talking about two different things - you mentioned in your previous post the problems associated with a warm water only dive instructor teaching someone and then that student going to cold water -in that situation its on the student to adapt or if required get instructions on the subtleties of cold water diving

I dont see how a warm water only instructor is able to teach the intricacies of cold water diving and its unrealistic to expect it

Your last post is talking about overall responsibilities of an instructor - which I agree with

 

[stretchthepenn]

One of the easiest/common errors I see in new rebreather pilots, is not closing the DSV before taking it out of their mouth. The sudden change in buoyancy has caused more than one death that I'm aware of.

It's literally a muscle-memory problem, I think. On OC, removing a regulator from one's mouth is a trivial issue, and it has zero negative consequences for the breathing system. And if one is used to diving SM, switching regulators gets to be an automatic behavior. Thus, failing to close a DSV is actually a natural behavior.

That's why I forgot to close my DSV once during training, and that's likely how I ended up with a caustic cocktail later that day.

 

[The Chairman]

That's why I forgot to close my DSV once during training, and that's likely how I ended up with a caustic cocktail later that day.

Me too. I was told by my instructor to never mention it.

 

[Marie13]

Me too. I was told by my instructor to never mention it.

No caustic cocktail, but I did flood my unit nicely. I think it was the last dive of the day, anyway.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I think I have flooded 2 rebreathers on the surface by not closing the DSV. Not complete floods and no caustics but enough to abort the dives before they even started due to sensors wigging out due to the water.

 

[Hiszpan]

To even get ready to dive, you have to open and close the DSV a number of times, test whether it holds a +/-, and so on. That's why I'm having trouble imagining how it fell off in the cave.

True, but how do we know the DSV was checked number of times before that dive, or before previous dives post truck incident?