Once a DM always liable

[Christi]

I would say compared to what most of us spend on diving in a year, $300 is a drop in the bucket. If you plan to go DM, isn't peace of mind worth $300?

Of course it is...I didn't say it wasn't...I was answering someone's question.

I am seriously considering DM training in the near future, and recently found the instructor I want to do it with. While I will probably go on to instruct someday, and I enjoy assisting other divers, my primary reason for doing DM training at this point is to gain the more in-depth education on decompression theory and diving physiology. My motives are primarily bettering myself as a diver, and secondarily to assist others. It seems the two go hand in hand.

Can't you learn all of this on your own through reading and surrrounding yourself with people who know? You don't have to cross the professional line to better yourself as a diver or to gain more knowledge.

 

[Christi]

The insurance is a good thing. Just be sure not to do anythign against procedure or standards that would cause the ins company to no longer cover you. In my eyes the insurance company and your certifiying agency would be the first ones to throw you under the bus.

Actually, quite the contrary. The ageny has just as much interest in protecting you as you do...it's the agencies reputation on the line. If you are following standards and procedures, they will defend you to the end.

I have yet to see a case about a DM or Inst getting successfully sued just for being on the same boat when some moron decided to tempt darwin. Sure suits have been filed, but most are thrown out.

Again, you are reading selectively. Read Andy's and my posts thoroughly...neither of us said that being on the same boat automatically gets you sued.

However, something many people don't understand about lawsuits, is that initially, numerous parties are typically named as defendants. Through the Discovery process (a fact finding process basically), defendants get dropped from the case as it is determined that there is no cause of action against that particular defendant. This is just part of the process.

If you are a professional, and you are on the boat where an accident occurs, you would most likely be named in the suit initially. Once it is determined rather quickly that you had no duty of care to the injured party, you would be dropped and you could live happily ever after.

Once again, those thinking about the professional track simply need to be aware of the exposure they are opening themselves up to...that's all I'm trying to say. Different agencies have different insurance carriers and different clauses...check with your agencies legal department if you have specific questions regarding your responsibilities and duties, etc.

 

[Aquanaut4ata]

You will find out that you'll need to carry insurance even as an inactive DM for a certain period of time...at least it is recommended if you've done any assisting of instructors. Even if you are inactive the possibility of being sued later down the line is there...however remote, it is there. You must be insured at the time the suit is brought. The statute of limitations in most states is 2 years +/- This means that someone can bring suit against you for a cause of action up to two years after the damage was done.

In otherwords, just because you are no longer active, does not prevent you from being sued for something that happened while you were active.

If the subject person happens to be a minor, the statute of limitations doesn't even strt until that person turns 18.

 

[DiveGolfSki]

NO, you're not reading thoroughly. Read through Andy's and my posts again.

Uhh, Christi calm down now. I was responding to dhogan4342's original post wherein he stated "I was told today by a dive shop owner that once a DM you are liable no matter what. If you are on a boat with two groups and a diver from the other group is injured and you were nowhere around but still on the same boat, you can be as liable as the other DM from the other group. This means even if you are on vacation and not running the group."

That was strange. Your post clearly details where a DM could be liable. BTW, it's hard to let go of your legal roots even in paradise, isn't it

 

[RonFrank]

I'm planning on going on to teach scuba as a pastime after retirement (in 5 years). I am 50 now and going for "Rescue" this year. The DM insurance is getting confusing. I was told today by a dive shop owner that once a DM you are liable no matter what. If you are on a boat with two groups and a diver from the other group is injured and you were nowhere around but still on the same boat, you can be as liable as the other DM from the other group. This means even if you are on vacation and not running the group. If I decide to go through the program just for the experience and pay padi the annual renewal fee, are you really safe forgoing the annual insurance?

The instructor that did my AOW has a Master Instructor Cert. She is fully insured. However she told me that when she dives on Vacation, she users her Master Diver Certification.

We did not get into a discussion about liability as a professional. However it would appear that she just does not let it be known that she is a diving professional when she is Not instructing.

Another thought on this is that if one is diving with a Charter, and something goes wrong, then even had there been other DM's or Instructors on board, any litigation will be directed at the DiveOp and their insurance.

In the Keys we did several dives where there were instructors on board our boat. Other then some friendly words, we had no interaction with them in or out of the water. Even a sharky Lawyer would have a difficult time assigning blame to an instructor who was with other students and no where near a diver who had an accident.

 

[Don Burke]

Yeah, I heard about this blonde that sued a pharmcutical company that made her spermicidal jelly - seems she still got pregnant even after she spread it on her toast.

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/jelly.htm

 

[all4scuba05]

not for nothing but why would you go on a trip and advertise that you are a DM to begin with if you're not trying to provide that service? is that the only card that you can carry?

 

[Christi]

Uhh, Christi calm down now. I was responding to dhogan4342's original post wherein he stated "I was told today by a dive shop owner that once a DM you are liable no matter what. If you are on a boat with two groups and a diver from the other group is injured and you were nowhere around but still on the same boat, you can be as liable as the other DM from the other group. This means even if you are on vacation and not running the group."

That was strange. Your post clearly details where a DM could be liable. BTW, it's hard to let go of your legal roots even in paradise, isn't it

Sorry I actually miss the legal worls sometimes My mind needs a good challenge every once in awhile

 

[Christi]

not for nothing but why would you go on a trip and advertise that you are a DM to begin with if you're not trying to provide that service? is that the only card that you can carry?

Because some people think it will give them certain privledges or status. And truthfully, and nstructor or DM doesn't get any special privledges with most shops...they need to prove their abilities in the water just like everyone else before we take them to certain sites, etc. You'd be very surprised at how many professional level divers can't control their buoyancy and air management when taken outside of the pool or lake.

I have course directors who dive with me who are honest with ME about their status, but they do not want the other customers on the boat knowing...just because they don't want to be treated any differently...they are ON VACATION!

Not showing the card or using a different card doesn't make you NOT who you are...so it's kind of pointless really. I also try not make a point that I am an instructor/shop owner when I go on vacation...but seems that anywhere I do choose to go on vacation they already know me...so it's hard for me just to be an average Jane in that respect. My next two trips are with friends who all know me, I've even certified some of them...one of those trips is with virtually all DM or Instructor level people...the few exceptions are qualified to be either...but have simply chosen not to go that route.

 

[Aquanaut4ata]

A couple of questions mentioned: Can you go back once you let your DM certification lapse? With SSI, you have a choice of being "Active", "non-renewed" or "retired". Active is of course active. The other two are not. You can return from both, with varying requirements, such as updated insurance, back dues, current materials, refresher training, physical exam,etc. I would assume that most other agencies are similarly aligned.
Another thing mentioned was carrying insurance if you're not actively functioning as a DM. If you have at some point been active, but are not any longer, you can purchase "Trailing insurance" at a much lower rate, which is designed to protect you on statute-of-limitations issues. I believe that it is reccomended that you carry it for 7 years.