Octopus recommendations

[NudeDiver]

Unless you're doing an overhead dive of some type, it's probably as good as it needs to be, since if you're breathing on it, you're pretty much always less than 4 minutes from the surface (7 minutes if you want a safety stop)

Well, what I’ve found is that trying to breath off the inflalter while simultaneously trying to use it to control buoyancy is anything but a straight-forward task – esp. in a drysuit. Trying to do it in an emergency situation while someone else is sucking off my primary seems like it would lead to unnecessary issues.

There's no free lunch. A good part of the cost is the first stage, part of the cost is is covered by the missing features (adjustments, etc.) however a lot of them are just cheap regs that you wouldn't ordinarily want to breathe from.

Yeah, I figured. Just trying to figure out what all is on the buffet OK – so I am looking to avoid “cheap” regs that one really wouldn’t want to breath from – but it’s not like I need something really feature laden either. Does your Atomic M1 fall into this category?

That depends on what you want to be breathing when the brown stuff hits the fan. I can tell you that if you're OOA, there's a good chance that the OOA diver will take your primary, especially if he takes your backup and doesn't feel like there's enough air coming out of it.

Well, my plan would be to give the other diver my primary (which is on a longer hose already) and keep the secondary on a necklace for myself.

a). might aswell go with a scuba pro still maybe a R295 thats what i use for my MK17/G250V and i dive in cold/ice water too.

OK, so that’s Atomic M1 and ScubaPro R295.

b). you should stick with the longer hose, the long hose helps as it allows the air flowing to the second stage more opportunity to warm up. .

Ah, now that’s a good tip. I assume this warmer air is going to benefit the second stage in some way? Or is it just a comfort thing?

you might want a longer hose on your primary too, but thats just an option

Yeah, I already put my primary on a long hose because I had real problems trying to reach back for it and grab it during the “reg kicked out of your mouth, now go and find it” exercises from my OW cert dives. After those 4 dives, I went out and got a long hose for it so I can grab it easier. It’s probably not quite as long as it should be if I am going to hand it off to someone. I’d probably put a longer hose on that, and then use the hose it currently has on a secondary. Maybe. I dunno. Maybe that would be too long.

The Mk 25 has its own cold water problems as the TIS system is not quite up to the heat transfer/freeze prevention task in extremely cold water (below about 45 degrees) unless your cold water technique is perfect. When you combine it with an S600, with its small plastic case and plastic air barrel, you can have bigger problems. A very slight freeflow in the second stage caused by formation of small ice crystals can create just enough extra flow to cause the Mk 25 to begin forming ice in areas that ultimately result in a large freeflow

Yeah, I’ve been reading a lot of people saying this recently, and it really surprises me, for two reasons. First, because my LDS assured me that this MK25/S600 combo was a great cold water rig – and I figured they would know since we’re in Alaska after all. Second, I have not had any problems it with it – but I will readily admit I’ve not made a huge number of dives with it either. So, now I guess I am confused. I thought I had a good reg set up – now I’m not so sure.

Lot's of good advice thus far. I dive with an MK25/X650 and have never had any problems at all. My coldest dives have only been in the 40's however. If you are happy with your current setup and plan to continue cold diving, then buy another just like it, get an H valve for your tank and dive with a redundant 1st and second stage (like RJP suggested). Or, get an MK17/G250 as your redundant set as they seem to get a better cold water rating (perceived anyway).

If I understand you correctly – you’re offering a solution that modifies a tank. I rent my tanks – so that’s not really an option – esp since I go out with multiple tanks for the weekend…that really would not work for me. I like the idea – and I like the idea of a pony bottle for emergencies, etc. I plan to get there – one day. But I think in terms of spending priorities, now that my wife is getting into diving, I’ve got an obligation to get her geared up with basics (like a drysuit, bc, regs, computer, etc.) before I go with a redundant setup for myself.

 

[Web Monkey]

Well, what I’ve found is that trying to breath off the inflalter while simultaneously trying to use it to control buoyancy is anything but a straight-forward task – esp. in a drysuit. Trying to do it in an emergency situation while someone else is sucking off my primary seems like it would lead to unnecessary issues.

That shouldn't be an issue, since as you ascend, the only control you'll need is the exhaust, and you probably have a shoulder dump on the right that would work just fine.

Yeah, I figured. Just trying to figure out what all is on the buffet OK – so I am looking to avoid “cheap” regs that one really wouldn’t want to breath from – but it’s not like I need something really feature laden either. Does your Atomic M1 fall into this category?

It's not "feature laden" as in "has lots of stuff you don't need", but it's an excellent regulator for the cold water you dive in. The last thing you want during an emergency is another emergency of your own, which you could easily have if your first stage starts freeflowing because of the additional cooling from the load imposed by the other diver.

Well, my plan would be to give the other diver my primary (which is on a longer hose already) and keep the secondary on a necklace for myself.

Plans are nice, but if the OOA diver gets something that they feel isn't delivering enough air, they'll probably go for yours.

Yeah, I’ve been reading a lot of people saying this recently, and it really surprises me, for two reasons. First, because my LDS assured me that this MK25/S600 combo was a great cold water rig – and I figured they would know since we’re in Alaska after all. Second, I have not had any problems it with it – but I will readily admit I’ve not made a huge number of dives with it either. So, now I guess I am confused. I thought I had a good reg set up – now I’m not so sure.

It's marketed by SCUBAPro as a cold water reg, however there seems to be varying opinions on how well it does in really cold water. Some people have great luck, some have problems.

We have water that's just as cold as yours, just not for quite as much of the year, and a lot of people here have Mk25's. Some people have had problems and a lot haven't, so I'm not sure if it's manufacturing tolerances or diver usage that determines how well it works.



Terry

 

[gijo1977]

Well,

Having done a fair amount of research and question asking on the forum I think you should consider the differences in the SP product lineup........

The R190 would make a great backup reg, has viva control, and it can deliver heaps of air, check this thread out R190 Info - DA Aquamaster

The 190 is pretty much the same thing as the R395 but a little bigger. The only differences with Octos and primaries at this "clasic downstream" end of the spectrum (from SP anyway) is the level of tuning that is applied from the factory, all of them can be re-tuned by a tech to give you as much air as you could really need. The R295 does not have a user control on the VIVA, this is where the R190 and 395 are better choices IMHO.

When you go up to a balanced reg in SP they only have the Primary option (AFAIK).

The S555 and the S600 are the same excepting the adjustment facility. The G250V is probably the top pick of SP regs for cold water use now, due to the re-inclusion of the metal air barrel (better heat transfer etc). With this in mind you can probably find yourself a secondhand G200B or G250 graphite as a backup reg (G200B is the same as G250 minus the adjustment knob) which are still highly regarded performers, both with metal air barrels and they will run like a dream (with the right tuning) from your MK25.

2nd hand SP stuff is pretty easy to keep maintained and repared due to the cross over of service kits between the various regs. ##the D series is getting harder to find parts for though ##

Another thing to consider for improviing coldwater performance is the removal of the hose guards, allowing the metal parts to have greater contact with the surrounding water, for heat transfer.

Hope you find what you are looking for, but I would recomend the R190 or a 2nd hand G250 (with metal air barrel)

 

[goldenwingk]

Ah, now that’s a good tip. I assume this warmer air is going to benefit the second stage in some way? Or is it just a comfort thing?

it will benefit by warming up the air and prevents a small freeflow in your 2nd stage, just incase if u need to use it.

Yeah, I’ve been reading a lot of people saying this recently, and it really surprises me, for two reasons. First, because my LDS assured me that this MK25/S600 combo was a great cold water rig – and I figured they would know since we’re in Alaska after all. Second, I have not had any problems it with it – but I will readily admit I’ve not made a huge number of dives with it either. So, now I guess I am confused. I thought I had a good reg set up – now I’m not so sure.

i know the MK25/S600 will be good and work well for water above 45 degrees. but i cant be 100% sure if it will do good in under 45 degree water especially while ice diving.
i dive with MK17/G250V yet again, and no problems at all in water 39 degrees!!! awesome set.
i've been recommended once to buy a second G250V and to use that as an octo, but i found that as a waste of money and just stuck to the R295, it worked great when my buddy needed to use it cause his reg had a freeflow. Also happened in water 39 degrees

 

[padiscubapro]

I bought an AirSource-2 when I bought all my crap in 2003. Since then, I've figured out that although it is nice to avoid and extra hose and such, the AirSource-2 sucks as a second regulator, for all the obvious reasons. So, I am looking to replace it with an Octopus that I can wear on a necklace.

My primary is a ScubaPro MK25/S600. I got this because I live in Alaska and reliability in cold water is a must. It was pretty expensive. From what I've seen, Octopi are a lot cheaper. I know part of the reason is because they do not come with a first stage - but even so, that doesn't seem to account for all of the cost difference. So, my questions are:

a). Can someone recommend an Octopus suitable for cold water use (I live in Alaska)?

b). How much should I expect to pay for a hose short enough to use the Octo on a necklace?

c). Why are Octopi SO much cheaper than primary regs - even factoring in the cost of the 1st stage?

d). Does it make sense to spend extra on an Octo, or should I just get one of the cheaper ones?

e). Should I bother to keep the Airsource-2 once I get the Octopus, or should I just put the regular inflator (never been used) back on?

Thanks!
ND

My advice is ditch the octo and get a pony bottle with a separate regulator - something thats reliable under cold conditions.... an octo is not a true backup.. In fact the HSE in the UK published a report saying its inadequate and a true backup gas source should be used..

In cold water a true backup is even more important.. Most of the diveboats where I live (ny/nj area) wount even allow you to dive without a redundant/isolated gas source (pony/sling bottle or doubles)..

 

[akscubaduck1]

I've got one question, Is this a MK25 AF. You can tell by the ribs on the 1st stage cap.
I've seen 2 of the older ones with just the T.I.S system freeze.
I don't have much experience yet with the new antifreeze system.
Just upgraded my old MK20 with the AF cap this spring.
Can't wait for winter to try out the upgrade.
I dive a MK10/Bal r109. Backup MK17/Bal r109.
Good luck
Terry

 

[halocline]

If I were in your shoes (fins) I'd get an old SP metal case 2nd, and have it upgraded to balanced/adjustable. Then I'd use that as the primary; it's a much better cold water reg than the S600. put the S600 on a necklace and use that as your back up.

If you don't like the idea of benching your high-end 2nd stage for a 30 year old ebay reg, you can get a new G250V and use that as the primary. Either way, you'd be better off in cold water than with the S600, or so I've heard from all the right sources. Where I live, cold water for me is mid 60s.

 

[Glycereine]

just to clarify the H valve setup is a tank valve modification. It's really not necessary in general for recreational diving, BUT cold water diving does present more factors to take into consideration, somewhat similar to the factors of diving deeper or in confined spaces. Specifially if you are into ice diving I would personally consider a true secondary air source as a requirment not a "nice to have."