O2 fills

[scubahubby]

There are other grades of commercial oxygen such as grades suitable for welding. These grades are not acceptable for diving.

Actually, the industrial welding grade O2 from every supplier I have used (Praxair, Air Liquide, Linde) is a higher standard than medical or aviation O2. And many people have been using it for years.

 

[scubahubby]

On a related-but-not-rebreather issue, I've also considered taking the DAN O2 provider course. If I had a medical bottle on my boat, would the DAN O2 card be enough to get it filled with medical grade O2, or would you also use 'avgas.' (I know, I know, avgas is slang for high-octane gasoline)

For personal use, fill it with anything. But I would be wary of using it during an actual emergency for another person unless it was medical grade O2. This is the land of liability....

Your LDS should be able to get your bottle filled for you. It is customary practice to have O2 available for classes so they should have a relationship with a medical O2 provider.

- Ozzy

 

[Narked_at_60]

Hi guys,

I'm a rebreather wannabe and curious...

I've heard a rumor that you must have a perscription to get O2 tanks filled. Is that a fact? Would a DAN O2 provider card make it easier?

Can most LDSs fill O2 tanks? Who else can?

Thanks.

You need a Certified card for filling your 02 canister- (Medical Grade) however for industrial grade there is no id required, it depends on country to country. If your looking for 100 % 02 fills you will need to be a certified DAN 02 Provider or Instructor to fill your 02 tank

 

[MikeFerrara]

Your LDS should be able to get your bottle filled for you. It is customary practice to have O2 available for classes so they should have a relationship with a medical O2 provider.

- Ozzy

I wouldn't count on it. In my state anyway a persription is required to buy medical grade O2. A dive shop might be able to find a doc to write them one for emergency use but that won't (as far as I know) allow them to fill your tank.

Check out the DAN site they have some info on this.

Most shops around here don't fill anything with O2 and sure wouldn't have the adapter needed to fill medical bottles.

On the good side my medical O2 kit that I baught several years ago is still full since I never had to use it.

If I ever do need to fill it I'll buy the adapter and fill it myself. If an injured diver doesn't want ABO grade they don't have to breath my O2. They can always wait for EMs to get there. LOL

 

[scubahubby]

Most shops around here don't fill anything with O2 and sure wouldn't have the adapter needed to fill medical bottles.

I wasnt suggesting the shop could fill it, rather that the shop could take it to the same place they take their bottles to get them filled. The dive shop would not usually need a perscription even though an individual may in a given state.

RE Waiting for EMS... If:
- the victim is concious
- you tell them it is not medical O2
- they take the O2 from you (e.g. dont put the mask on them)
- and there is a witness
you "might" be safe

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wasnt suggesting the shop could fill it, rather that the shop could take it to the same place they take their bottles to get them filled. The dive shop would not usually need a perscription even though an individual may in a given state.

I of course don't can't say about all states but from the information I have I don't think it's any easier for a dive shop to buy medical grade O2 than it is for any one else. I think it's common for a perscription to be required. I know I couldn't get med grade O2 any easier than any one else when I owned a shop and I sure couldn't have sold it if I did have it.

RE Waiting for EMS... If:
- the victim is concious
- you tell them it is not medical O2
- they take the O2 from you (e.g. dont put the mask on them)
- and there is a witness
you "might" be safe

If the victem is concous you always have to ask. Right?

If they are unconcious and all I have is ABO then they'll get ABO. If that ABO grade O2 hurts them and some one can prove it then so be it.

I'll tell you this though. Industry SOP is to administer O2 for diving injuries. I've never read anything about ABO being anykind of a health risk. I think, especially if you're a pro, that you'd have to answer more questions if you didn't give anything than if you gave ABO.

Also given the way they push O2 training and DAN kits and considering that you need a perscription (sometimes) to buy medical grade O2...somebody is pulling our leg. You think? I mean if med grade O2 is a control substance (drug?) am I going to jail for administering it when I'm not supposed to have it? That doesn't just sond like a liability think it sounds like a criminal thing.

 

[BigJetDriver]

I've never read anything about ABO being anykind of a health risk. I think, especially if you're a pro, that you'd have to answer more questions if you didn't give anything than if you gave ABO.

Mike, et al,

I sure as heck would hope that ABO is not a health risk after all the cubic feet of it that I have sucked down over the years.

It is pure, after all, and certified as a breathing gas. It just has a little less moisture in it, by design, so as to protect the plumbing fom freezing at altitude. (At least, this was the original intent. It hasn't changed, even though the plumbing and insulation has!)

You are right, as well, Mike, when you say that the most appropriate thing to do IS to administer the O2.

Cheers, folks!

 

[scubahubby]

I of course don't can't say about all states but from the information I have I don't think it's any easier for a dive shop to buy medical grade O2 than it is for any one else.

I should be wary of saying "most", but some and perhaps most states have an exception for O2 for rescue use so that Dive Shops/pools/ etc can get the small emergency O2 cylinders filled without a perscription.

If they are unconcious and all I have is ABO then they'll get ABO.

I wouldnt worry about giving someone ABO since it is intended for human consumption. I should have made it clearer my comment was with respect to industrial O2. I use industrial O2 since it is both cheaper and cleaner than medical O2 or ABO. Its perfectly safe (cleaner than medical grade) but if sued it would cost more than Im willing to spend just to go through the motions to get it to go away.

I carry a separate cylinder with medical O2 for use on someone else in an emergency.

 

[oxyhacker]

- it's illegal to fill a medical O2 tank unless you are licensed to do so. It is considered "manufacture of a prescription drug".

- However, if you did, it would be just about impossible to prove that you had, unless you confess to it, because...

- while aviation O2 is on paper drier, and welding/industrial cleaner, than medical O2, in real life they are all pretty much the same.

- the federal regs concerning the prescription status of O2 are so poorly written that it is hard to say what they really mean. Basically they say that medical O2 is prescription when used to treat a non-emergency medical condition, but can be administered without a prescription by qualified personel for emergency treatment.

- it's up to the states to detirmine who is allowed to buy the stuff or not, and to define "qualified personel", Your state pharmacy board will usually have the inside scoop.

- the fact that it is legal or not for you to buy med O2 in your state has very little to do with whether you will be able to buy it, since many gas suppliers in states where it is legal refuse to believe it is, and many in states where it isn't will sell it anyhow if you give them a good story or wave a DAN card in their face.

- if you look at the enforcement record for the FDA, you will find that they never seem to prosecute individuals for misuse of O2, medical or otherwise.

There! Bet that clarifies it ;-)

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

-
There! Bet that clarifies it ;-)

Thanks a lot. You've actually explained it very well, considering that the law doesn't.

Based on your User Name, I guess I should have gone directly to you!