O2 Cleaning for Nitrox

[Divin'Papaw]

Sounds like Jupiter dive center. I’m vip certified, always carry my card, but they wouldn’t fill my tanks from their premixed nitrox because I stickered the tanks clean for nitrox preblend but not oxygen. I specifically stickered that way because my valves were due for rebuild and I didn’t have time to do it, so couldn’t confirm they’d be oxygen clean. I had a long argument with the shop manager and their gear tech about why oxygen clean wasn’t necessary for preblend but it didn’t matter. Basically they just wanted to vip my tanks. It especially makes no sense because it was never an issue in the past. Between that and three dives where they couldn’t actually drop us over the reef and kept dumping us in the sand I gave up on them.

We have a winner!!!

They are the only shop down here I've run into with such an inane policy. Force-E, Boynton Dive Center, Pura Vida, Pompano Dive Ctr (before they closed), SeaExp, Dixie, Horizon in Key Largo, Scuba Adventures (in Naples) ... ALL of them bank Nitrox and NONE of them hold to this lunacy.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I don't think you will find such a report. The only filling danger with (say) 32% Nitrox is when it starts as 100% plus the right amount of 21% to dilute it down.

I agree 100%. I've never seen an incident that involved a tank fire/explosion in an EAN32-36 tank that was not O2 cleaned and filled with pre-blended Nitrox (not partial pressure blending). I don't believe any incidents have occurred out there in scubaland but I'm always open to being corrected.

 

[Scared Silly]

Sounds like Jupiter dive center. I’m vip certified, always carry my card, but they wouldn’t fill my tanks from their premixed nitrox because I stickered the tanks clean for nitrox preblend but not oxygen. I specifically stickered that way because my valves were due for rebuild and I didn’t have time to do it, so couldn’t confirm they’d be oxygen clean. I had a long argument with the shop manager and their gear tech about why oxygen clean wasn’t necessary for preblend but it didn’t matter. Basically they just wanted to vip my tanks. It especially makes no sense because it was never an issue in the past. Between that and three dives where they couldn’t actually drop us over the reef and kept dumping us in the sand I gave up on them.

It actually does make sense, because they probably have insurance that says they will follow all applicable industry standards. By not following those standards, which says any cylinder seeing an O2 content over 23.5% must be cleaned for O2 service, if there is any type of problem, regardless of how remote, that would give the insurance company cause to deny their claim.

That said, if you are VIP certified you also know that there is no industry standard for filling a cylinder with a gas containing up 40% O2 without it being cleaned for oxygen service. So putting a VIP sticker on a cylinder saying as such does follow any VIP training that I know about. Both TDI/SDI and PSI VIP stickers say either O2 or not. Nothing in between.

So while one can argue all they want about well that is what they do and have not yet had a problem. That is moot because it is not a standard. Do not like it, go the CGA and lobby for changes.

I agree 100%. I've never seen an incident that involved a tank fire/explosion in an EAN32-36 tank that was not O2 cleaned and filled with pre-blended Nitrox (not partial pressure blending). I don't believe any incidents have occurred out there in scubaland but I'm always open to being corrected.

In discussions with Mark Gresham at PSI he said there have been incidents. I will take him at his word but I my limited research has not yielded any reports. I suspect they are minor but not insignificant which is why we do not hear of them.

 

[NAM001]

That's way way it should be done. Vote in their pocket book, but make sure they know why. There are establishments I will never do business with again. They now why. When enough people hit them where it hurts they will change their policies.

This is what happens when there is the one that is in legal compliance and is compared with the rest of the non compliant world. Working with O2 in a commercial setting is very expensive to do. The legitimate cleaning alone would make nitrox not used because of the cost. that is why so many smaller places use PP blending. And If you think that is bad look for this. Separate location from the fill station for compressor / controls for the tanks while filling. Or after than filling in a containment system.

 

[NAM001]

It actually does make sense, because they probably have insurance that says they will follow all applicable industry standards. By not following those standards, which says any cylinder seeing an O2 content over 23.5% must be cleaned for O2 service, if there is any type of problem, regardless of how remote, that would give the insurance company cause to deny their claim.

That said, if you are VIP certified you also know that there is no industry standard for filling a cylinder with a gas containing up 40% O2 without it being cleaned for oxygen service. So putting a VIP sticker on a cylinder saying as such does follow any VIP training that I know about. Both TDI/SDI and PSI VIP stickers say either O2 or not. Nothing in between.

So while one can argue all they want about well that is what they do and have not yet had a problem. That is moot because it is not a standard. Do not like it, go the CGA and lobby for changes.



In discussions with Mark Gresham at PSI he said there have been incidents. I will take him at his word but I my limited research has not yielded any reports. I suspect they are minor but not insignificant which is why we do not hear of them.

I agree 100%. Keep in mind that PSI is not a safety organization per se' it is a mitigation agency of sorts in the event there is an incident. Safety is not the factor if issue,,,,, but compliance with safety regulations is for litigation purposes is.

It is hard for me to imagine how a 36% mixture can cause a problem without other factors involved, but again much like 23.5% requires O2 cleaning they cover it just as if it were a daily problem. And yet scuba valves are not compliant yet it is very possible that because of them it is in their and others view that they would be a trigger for and incident with higher O2 contents. We have moved a long way from above 60% is pure and below 60 is air as found by NASA .

 

[NAM001]

Sounds like Jupiter dive center. I’m vip certified, always carry my card, but they wouldn’t fill my tanks from their premixed nitrox because I stickered the tanks clean for nitrox preblend but not oxygen. I specifically stickered that way because my valves were due for rebuild and I didn’t have time to do it, so couldn’t confirm they’d be oxygen clean. I had a long argument with the shop manager and their gear tech about why oxygen clean wasn’t necessary for preblend but it didn’t matter. Basically they just wanted to vip my tanks. It especially makes no sense because it was never an issue in the past. Between that and three dives where they couldn’t actually drop us over the reef and kept dumping us in the sand I gave up on them.

They were right..... any mix 23.5 ,,,,,and above some low psi LIKE 50 OR 150 requires O2 cleaning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, per the CFR's Ive always wondered how much agencies like PSI have on the writing of the CFR's. That is a problem for me because agencies would be able to create the CFR's by layering a 10% safety buffer over and over again instead of teaching how to exist with in the regs that others have made. Much like a trial where the jury is made of one or more police officers involved with the case. I would have rather groups like PSI to have deliniated the 23.5% issue and tagged it to PP blending only because as (they will admit) LESS THAN 40% o2 IS NOT A PROBLEM. It is 100% O2 when you do the PP blending portion of the blending. As it is ,,,,,,,,all have to pay the price of PP blending even if they do not PP blend. To be honest I can not say for sure that PP blending is limited to pure O2 and not for instance topping off 36% with air. Both are diluting a higher concentration gas with air. That statement may sound crazy but 99% is not pure and we live in a society that likes one rule fits all. BTW PSI admits that they use the one rule fits all to say do it this way and there is no problems under ANY circumstance.

 

[NAM001]

It actually does make sense, because they probably have insurance that says they will follow all applicable industry standards. By not following those standards, which says any cylinder seeing an O2 content over 23.5% must be cleaned for O2 service, if there is any type of problem, regardless of how remote, that would give the insurance company cause to deny their claim.

That said, if you are VIP certified you also know that there is no industry standard for filling a cylinder with a gas containing up 40% O2 without it being cleaned for oxygen service. So putting a VIP sticker on a cylinder saying as such does follow any VIP training that I know about. Both TDI/SDI and PSI VIP stickers say either O2 or not. Nothing in between.

So while one can argue all they want about well that is what they do and have not yet had a problem. That is moot because it is not a standard. Do not like it, go the CGA and lobby for changes.



In discussions with Mark Gresham at PSI he said there have been incidents. I will take him at his word but I my limited research has not yielded any reports. I suspect they are minor but not insignificant which is why we do not hear of them.

As the stickers go the nothing in between is a product of the one rule fits all. Yet look at a new tank and it is marked for 40% but is O2 cleaned from the maker. I cant say that there has been incidents cause from 36% either but surely there have been incidents where 36% was a factor in play no matter how little or how much.