Now I Understand!

[hypnodean]

I didn't quite understand why some people say that photgraphers are the worst buddies and SOME UW photographers get a bad rap... I just did a dive today, my 8th since certification, first one with a crowd (14 people) and first one with a photographer amongst us.

I have to vent for a moment... As someone new, I am VERY interested in getting into UW photography, but also feel like I need to be comfy with all the basics before I am worrying about something besides me and my buddy (ies) down there. What I saw today sent it home even more...

I saw a diver with his camera race in front of others, almost kick people in the face more than once, land on the bottom and the reef, stir up silt, hit coral, etc etc etc. A nice guy he was as well, just ignorant I am sure, but it did give me some lessons in what I do not want to do. Not lumping all UW photographers into this category, it justw as a good object lesson and I thought I'd share.

At one point, he took a very close up picture of some big pretty blue and yellow fish (my technical terms since I am learning their names slowly) and when the flash went off, the fish flipped on its side and spun in a circle as if disoriented from the bright light. Is this common??

I want to be one of those who comes and watches, but doesn't hurt anything while I am down there.

Dean

 

[Mo2vation]

I didn't quite understand why some people say that photgraphers are the worst buddies and SOME UW photographers get a bad rap... I just did a dive today, my 8th since certification, first one with a crowd (14 people) and first one with a photographer amongst us.

I have to vent for a moment... As someone new, I am VERY interested in getting into UW photography, but also feel like I need to be comfy with all the basics before I am worrying about something besides me and my buddy (ies) down there. What I saw today sent it home even more...

I saw a diver with his camera race in front of others, almost kick people in the face more than once, land on the bottom and the reef, stir up silt, hit coral, etc etc etc. A nice guy he was as well, just ignorant I am sure, but it did give me some lessons in what I do not want to do. Not lumping all UW photographers into this category, it justw as a good object lesson and I thought I'd share.

At one point, he took a very close up picture of some big pretty blue and yellow fish (my technical terms since I am learning their names slowly) and when the flash went off, the fish flipped on its side and spun in a circle as if disoriented from the bright light. Is this common??

I want to be one of those who comes and watches, but doesn't hurt anything while I am down there.

Dean

Anyone who's been reading my stuff here for the last 16+ months knows I don't buddy up with Hunters, Rebreathers or Photographers.

So after about 160-some dives, I've become a UW photographer.

I can say with very firm conviction, you want to be a diver who photographs, not a photographer who dives. Get the diving dialed in, then add the picture taking to it. You'll have more fun, and you'll get better shots when your watermanship is under control.

I've seen these egg beaters too. Its not pretty. You're asking the right questions. As to the shell-shocked fish... I dunno. I've only started, but I've shot a few hundred photos, and never had my flash send a fishy off the deep end.

K

 

[Dee]

Dean, unfortunately it only takes one of those types of photographers to give us all a bad rep, leaving the rest of us to defend ourselves. For every 1 bad example there are dozens of consciensious photographers with excellent manners and bouyancy skills. All you can do is strive to be one of those and not the former.

To answer your question, No it's not really common for fish to flip on their side and spin in circles, although it can happen. Some fish and creatures are more delicate than others, such as seahorses and frogfish while some such as Scorpionfish seem as though they couldn't care less how close you get with your bright strobes. When with a large group of divers, each wanting to get their shot of the seahorse (or whatever), you need to take the welfare of the fish/creature into consideration. Is it showing signs of getting stressed? Is it being made a target for preditors? In some areas popular to night dives, it's known that preditors wait just out of the light for a diver to highlight a smaller fish then it swoops in for an easy meal. No picture is worth endangering the creatures. If so, back off. You may not think so but you'll have another chance to capture that fish at another time.

I applaud your realizing that you have alot to learn and shouldn't start UW photography until you are a proficient diver. If more photographers did that, maybe there wouldn't be so many bad ones.

 

[ChrisM]

I know you're not maligning all UW photogs, and I am not taking it that way....

You didn't see a bad UW photographer. You saw a ******y diver, who happened to have a camera. Heck. I've seen many divers without cameras "almost kick people in the face more than once, land on the bottom and the reef, stir up silt, hit coral, etc etc etc"

There are a hole photographers out there. My very first dive with a photog was like that, the DM would point something out and he would rush over, knocking everyone out of the way, and scare the fish off Some 500 duves later, I had it again last month in Yap with a very rude photog (in his defense in a weird sort of way, he was from a culture where "personal space" has a much different meaning), who would do the same thing. Luckily, they are few and far between in my experience.

Agree with ken, and you will never take decent pics if your diving is not dialed in.

Chris

 

[Dee]

Looks like we were all typing basically the same thing at the same time!

 

[Gilligan]

I'll 2nd, 3rd, 4th all that was posted on this. I love the egg beater description.
This thread makes me truly appreciate my kayak solo diving with my camera.
I am probably the worst dive buddy because of it.

 

[MarkH]

This behaviour is precisely why I don't dive in large groups and unless I know the person well, I usually dive by myself. The only difference is that this behaviour is displayed by non-photographers. If a photographer crashes across the bottom, stirring up sand and scaring fish, they're going to get nasty pictures. As a photographer (the same goes for every serious and semi-serious photographer I know), I approach fish slowly and carefully and my bouyancy is fine tuned to stay off the bottom. When I have dived in groups, I almost always get kicked in the head (or worse, the cameras) by non-photographers charging along the bottom towards a fish that I have been slowly and carefully trying to take a picture of. I'm sure more than a few of you have had this experience. That's probably why David Doubliet doesn't dive from cattle boats when he's on assignment for national geographic. The diver you saw was probably like the diver on his one dive of the year and was trying to take pictures, any pictures, to prove he saw stuff. As for the "flashed" fish reaction, I've NEVER had any fish react in any way to my strobe. This sounds unbelievable, but it's true. It might be different at night. I suspect that what you saw was some kind of "aggression display" to scare the diver away from it's territory or eggs. I've often had this happen to me with even tiny 2 inch fish. I usually back away for the sake of the fish's pride.

 

[whitehead]

You didn't see a bad UW photographer. You saw a ******y diver, who happened to have a camera.
Chris

Very well put, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[onbelaydave]

I agree, there are good and bad divers (who just happen to have a camera with). I usually try to dive solo, so I guess that would make me bad buddy. But here are a few of my observations. It seems that in the last couple of years the digital camera craze has swept the diving scene, making people think that since it's so easy and cheap, that it's one of the first gear purchases they make. Unfortunately I've seen far too many divers "carrying cameras" that would have better spent their money on more lessons or dives than on their new "toy". Nobody should even think of taking a camera along until your diving is "automatic" ! I dive solo because my photography means I'm 90% occupied finding the "shots" I want. Until you have your skill level dialed in you are a hazard to yourself, and the reef if you get "sidetracked" !
That said, and as much I hate to say it, some of the rudest divers I've met are photog's. I'm not talking diving skills, the people in question were excellent divers, but here's just 2 situations I've witnessed. On a night dive once at ScubaClub,Coz. I had just taken a few pics of an octo., when 2 divers,seeing my flashes, swooped in with their Nikonos w/framers attached and tried to literally pin the poor thing to the sand for a couple of shots! Last year in Roatan, on a boat dive, I had waited 5-7 min. (at 70') to get "my chance" to photograph a seahorse, because "EVERYONE" on the boat had a camera. I thought I was the last one so I moved in for my shot. Mind you, I'm shooting an AF SLR in a housing, I moved in and got the perfect pose, ready to shoot,focus locked on, when suddenly I saw a pair of framing guides come into perfect focus in my viewfinder from a diver who had moved in from the other side !!. I didn't need any dive training to flash the appropriate "sign" as I swam off in disgust without being able to get the shot!
I've seen too many other instances where the "photographers" rush in to get their shot in case the subject at hand should decide it doesn't want any company and the poor folks without cams are left in the outfield.
So once again it just boils down to good "manners". Once underwater, everyone has paid for that dive; it doesn't matter whether you don't carry a cam, or have a little "one use" film cam, a digital, or a mammoth housed SLR. Just because you carry a camera doesn't make you special. Respect the other divers with you and patiently wait for your chance. I try to limit myself to 2 shots if I know others are waiting in line behind me and if I'm not happy with those, I'll get in line again and wait.

Trying not to give photographers a bad name, Dave

 

[Aggie Diver]

I just wanted to echo everything said. Most of my friends see me as a photographer, but I see myself as a diver who takes photos when the opportunity presents itself. I don't go out to take photos, I go out to dive, the photos are just a nice record of what I saw to share with others topside.

I think non-photogs and photogs have to be cognizant of one another so that everyone has a good diving experience.

For example, on a boat trip I took in Hawaii, I had two of the most miserable clear water dives I've ever had. Why? Because there was a couple who I don't know if they just had bad eyesight or what, but anytime I found something it was only a matter of time before I was chased off or I was run over by them trying to see it.

There was quite a bit of current on both dives, and neither one had very good buoyancy or control. I pretty much hit my limit about halfway through the second dive when I was trying to take a photo of a hawkfish hidden in a coral head and next thing I know I'm getting blindsided by the woman in the couple. We literally tumbled across the bottom 10-12 feet in the surge after she killed me from behind. I thought about the appropriate "salute", but figured it wasn't worth it.

For a while I was just POed, for a good 5 minutes my dive was ruined because it was the 6th time either her or her husband had run into me/pushed me out of the way while I was taking a pic.

Then I was smart enough to figure out we should just trail behind them, so me and my buddy let them go ahead and I could work behind them, upcurrent from them as well, and they were oblivious that we were back there.

But honestly, what makes a diver feel like they should just push someone or altogether run them over when they're looking at something? What is up with that?

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