Not like a backplate?

[roakey]

Originally posted by buff
It seems like that's what divers, so long ago, used to dive with and that's why they made those new, fancy weight integrated BCs-cause the old stuff was uncomfortable.

The old backplates were *very* comfortable. I still have my old early 1970s Dacor backplate kicking around. Over the years as diving appealed to a wider and wider spectrum of divers, fashion displaced what was once innovation. The BC became a spectacular fashion accessory, able to be accessorized with matching fins, regulators, and masks. More surface area means more color until you have what is referred to by some as the “poodle jackets” of today.

We’re seeing the same progression happening in the “technical” arena now, too.

Roak

 

[Warhammer]

Originally posted by Rick Murchison
One of the things I do during a DiveCon (Assistant Instructor part of the class - Divecons are certified to teach the "Scuba Skills Update" course) class is show up as an "Update" student who hasn't been underwater in quite awhile. I show up with my original rig - Steel 72 with hardpack/harness, round mask, full-foot "flippers", single hose regulator... no BC, no SPG, no weights, no wetsuit.
Rick

LOL! Something tells me you probably make one heck of a student. I bet you're the one the DMs are whispering about in the background. But they should be prepared for it. Go get 'em.

 

[scubabunny]

Roakey,

This post was in "General Equipement" forum, not the Tech forum, so I assumed Buff was asking from a recreational divers point of view. And, he asked if anyone had any negative feelings about the backplate. I just stated my opinion. I was not saying anything bad about backplates, they just don't feel comfortable on me. Should I or anyone use gear that is uncomfortable in the store?

I was simply saying that not all divers needed the same equipment. Whether you like it or not, the dive community has expanded quite a bit. I am one of those "recreational" divers that you seem to dislike so much (although for the record..I hate pink too). I have NO desire to go "tekkie", much less go into a cave. Does that make my opinion less valid in this forum?? I don't think so.

I think the majority of the people on this board just want to go down and look at the pretty fishes and experience first hand what they only saw on TV as a kid.

I'm glad you have a passion for what you do, but please don't be-little people when they state their opinion.

For the record again, I didn't say anything way wrong with the setups...just said I didn't like them..which is what the question asked.

 

[Fishkiller]

If all the divers that swore by back plates were under the ocean, it would be best to leave them there.
I enjoy my jacket BC with IW. and the two under used pockets.

Roak so what is wrong with color? when used in moderation all things are good. I mean at times I wish I had neon everything
that way other divers could spot me.

but then again the old saying of birds of a feather, if I had to dive with a person swearing by a BP I would give up diving. If I want preaching that is what church is for. Now I do dive at times with a person that uses a BP set up, even has a double, I see him more times in a regular BC. Wear what is comfortable for you, and you'll enjoy your dive more.

Rick I think you need a video camera I would love to see that.

 

[watergal]

Roak, Scubabunny & Fishkiller -- is there room for me in the middle?

Yes, I cave and do that other extended reange stuff, but my favorit place to be is over a coral reef, I despise the term "techdiver", I think most vest style BCs are fine and have several advantages for single tank diving, and I like color UW, including pink (although I don't wear it).


Scubabunny, while we accept the validity of your experience--and certainly, you might try a harness in the water a few times and come to exactly the same conclusion, I too didn't think your expereince was "trying" a harness in the way it is intended. If someone who was thinking of trying scuba asked for negative experiences, what would you think of someone who dropped out of an OW class telling him that Scuba was no fun because he got chorlinated water in his mask and it burned his eyes and nose?

As far as standard recreational diving, when I started caving, I had two separate gear bags (ok, the cave "gearbag" is now an Xterra ). Then I got a set of compact wings! While I agree that there is no use for a steel bp on a Bonaire 1hr reef dive, the harness and compact wings keep you perfectly horizontal without even trying. There is no place to trap air, so bouancy control and trim seem to happen with thought. When I see a group swimming by in that diagonal bicycling, reef destroying position we all know and hate, I want everyone on the reef to be required to wear back inflate until they get comfortable.

Certainly, lots of people have no intention of anything beyond single AL80 diving and that changes gear choices and many of those people will want a weight integrated vest Hard to argue with "wear what is comfortable", but my point is just not to disgard the harness because it sounds like it is for techies or it looks uncomfortable in the store. Like someone above posted, putting on tank mask and fins is uncomfortable in the dive store too. Just like Scuba, it all changes when you get underwater and having lived on both sides of this issue,my point is that more people might want to try diving a harness and back inflate style than currently do

 

[Lost Yooper]

Hey Buff,

For forgive you for what? You're doing exactly what you should be doing -- asking around. I did the same thing years ago, and never found anyone disliking the BP once underwater so long as they were using it correctly. I didn't respond to this one earlier because I don't have anything bad to say about BP's. It seems to have opened up a bit now, which is good too.

Look at it this way, if a simple BP, wing, and single peice harness is used in the most demanding environments on earth by the most extreme divers on earth, could it be possible that it will work exceedingly well in environments you intend to dive in? My experience says unequivically -- yes. Will other BC's work in recreational environments? Yup, of course they will, but it becomes a matter of degree, right?

The question, I guess, becomes how do you want to spend your money? You can spend it on a color coordinated recreational jacket BC or a slick looking "tech" BC with all kinds of gizmos to play with. You could end now and buy the last BC you'll have to buy that will take you anywhere you want to go and have the most streamlined and simple BC on the market. I've made my mistakes, but it's up to you.

Good luck.

Mike

 

[detroit diver]

Originally posted by scubabunny
Roakey,

......I'm glad you have a passion for what you do, but please don't be-little people when they state their opinion.....

Scubabunny,

I don't think Roakey was be-littleing anyone (ie. you.) when he made the statements that he did. I'm not speaking for him, but he just stated facts about where the equipment evolution has come from. You gotta admit, when BC's, spgs, and octos all come from the same source of diving, you have to stand up and take notice. Do I think everyone should be diving a BP/wings? Actually, yes. Its a much more efficient way of diving. Less gadgets, less things to go wrong. Of course that will never happen-it would kill the scuba marketing industry and their penchant to sell "thingies"!

BTW, I dive a single tank-AL80. I'm no caver, cavern'er, or deep "tech" diver by any stretch of the imagination.

Roakey- If I'm off base here, I apologize.

 

[Fishkiller]

Watergal wrote:
Certainly, lots of people have no intention of anything beyond single AL80 diving and that changes gear choices and many of those people will want a weight integrated vest Hard to argue with "wear what is comfortable", but my point is just not to disgard the harness because it sounds like it is for techies or it looks uncomfortable in the store.

It gets very frustrating when people do, I mean with logic like that makes one wonder why Mr. Ford ventured past the model T.

LY-

Is it safe so say that you wear the Tech BC? It works fine for you correct? I was told by my LDS about the Dive Rite program for kids buy a Transpac II plus and until the child is 16, DR will upgrade (larger stuff) it for free. My son looked and said "it doesn't have pockets" went over to the Sherwood Freedom and said "this one has a cool pocket and is blue" Oh he could get a pouch like it for the DR but "his buckle would have to be on his side"

Where? What are the Gizmos that you speak of ? What I saw was nothing but D rings.

 

[RAN]

good thread!

as someone about to finally outfit myself
Ive been following this debate for some time,I've tried on in the shop both a Ranger and the Halcyon pioneer set up..gonna take a dip in the pool with both rigs to finalise my decision,but if i had to walk away with one today right here and now it'd be the Halcyon...clean,logical,unlimited potential.
The Ranger is great but more BC than I need right now(30 rec dives a year looking at fish) but I do have aspirations !and I feel I can configure the BP and wings to any type of diving with greater ease.
we'll see what insights my pool session yields.

Detroit Diver do you use keel weights with your al80's

 

[watergal]

Heyya RAN,

Thanks for saying what I was trying to! Nothing is Scuba is comfortable at first. We all got used to a vest after many hours in the pool, so we bought vests because we were used to them so they were comfortable, NOT because they are the best choice for recreational diving.

IMHO, and most importantly, having been there myself, many "non-tech" divers would be much happier with back inflate & harness if they tried diving it for a bit and took time to learn it like they did in OW class. But for some reason a lot of people will not even consider the idea.

BTW, I have a vest too and I dive it not infrequentlly--it depends on the dive type. FYI, Scubabunny, for reef diving in a bathing suit, I always use the harness and travel wings--packs better, dries quicker, as well as the stuff mentioned previously.

Hope the test plunge goes well!