Not a huge fan of my GoPro

[arew+4]

No, this is incorrect. No camera in the world will give you good images underwater without strobes, period, forget about it.
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F-ed up the quote, but the images I posted are internal flash only, no strobe. Very little post adj

 

[Chris Ross]

It's a pity but there is only two levels when it comes to underwater photography.
You use a GoPro which is simple cheap and takes half assed pictures or you spend thousands of dollars on a proper DSLR and housing plus a dozen other things.
Photography is a Hobby of mine but I am not sure if I want to take a Nikon D500 and all that gear down into the water. It may make for much better pictures but my dive is not going to be all that enjoyable.

The whole point of this thread is the position that there are multiple options between a Go-pro and a DSLR. compacts like the TG-6, 1"sensor compacts, then micro43, APS_C and finally DSLR. features and image quality go up as you go along the sequence as does $ spent.

 

[Barmaglot]

Also, $10,000 spent on strobes is a bit excessive. I just priced out a full kit with Retra Pro strobes (I consider them to be the best that money can buy, at this time) on the manufacturer's website and with two strobes, superchargers, reduction rings, reflectors, wide diffusers, shark diffusers, bumpers, neoprene jackets and a single LSD snoot, I came to €3,203 in total - for best of the best, with all the bells and whistles. You can go considerably cheaper with a single Inon Z-330 or similar.

 

[Chris Ross]

This seems like one of the more informative posts, but I don't fully follow it. Does "ISO increases" mean a higher ISO or a better (lower number) ISO?

I thought maximum sync speed limited the fastest I could shoot with a flash, depending on the opening and closing of the sensor. It makes sense opening and closing takes longer for a physically larger sensor, but I'd also assume more expensive cameras had faster moving parts. So I might be able to shoot 1/500th of a second with one camera and no faster than 1/100th with another. But longer exposures should lead to lower ISOs and better images, so this really only limits my ability to get a clear picture of a really fast moving fish. What am I missing?

I understand a wider scene is going to benefit more from multiple strobes and something farther away is going to look better with brighter strobes. But I am assuming I am comparing the same field of view and same scene with both cameras.

It makes sense that something with interchangeable lenses is going to need a bulkier and more complicated housing. But wouldn't a G1XIII be almost the same size and complexity as a TG6?

The whole point of bringing in sync speed is that impacts your ability to balance flash photos with ambient and is the reason you need more powerful strobes with large sensors. In UW photos with water in the background with a DSLR you need to balance between ambient exposure on the water and the strobe illuminated subject. With a DSLR you need to stop down f11-16 and you want your shutter speed to not exceed sync speed and a nice deep blue colour to the water - in practice this sets your ISO.

If you have a cheap less powerful strobe and you are shooting at f11-16 and you want more strobe light on your subject, you might already be at full power. You say - "no problem I'll just increase my ISO" but if your shutter speed is already high you will brighten your ambient exposure as you increase ISO and you can't increase shutter speed to compensate because you hit the sync speed limit. The answer - you need more strobe power. A compact you'll shoot the same scene at f5.6 and you've already got two stops more strobe exposure on your subject. Yes - compacts can sync faster that is not the point - mostly you don't need them to, they are fine with their low power strobes.

I'm recommending you consider the 1"sensor compacts for good reason - everything scales with sensor size - strobe power requirements, cost , flexibility . The G1X is APS-C sensor and brings all the big sensor baggage without the flexibility of an interchangable lens. The lens also changes length a lot - the wide end it is short and the lens will be down at the bottom of the port - this means wet wide lenses will be a problem if you want to get one later. That's also the reason I have talked about the G7X rather than the RX100. The newer RX100s zoom too far and they don't work well with wet wide lenses in fact some housings come with a short port option to let the wide lenses work properly but if you put that on you can't zoom in all the way. As another bonus if you are zooming in and the lens hits the port glass inside (there is no way to stop it except for timing by you) it throws an error and needs to restart. The wide lens needs the front of the camera lens close to the port so it does not vignette.

If you are not sold on the 1"compacts like the RX100 you could look into this: Olympus PEN E-PL10 Camera & 14-42mm EZ Lens Kit with Backscatter Octo Underwater Housing

It has a micro43 sensor and is well setup to take wet and macro lenses. You can also changes front ports and install a fisheye lens which is great for reef scenes.

You can use these options bare without wet lenses , you won't get the range of shots but you can shoot fish, turtles, small sharks,other divers at a pinch in clear water, small sections of reef, large nudibranches etc. If it was me I'd get a wet lens something like this at the same time for wide angle work: Inon UWL-H100 28 M67 Wide Conversion Lens Type 1

Another point - Get a vacuum system!!!! Never underestimate the ability of salt water to destroy electronics and a dunk in rinse tank is not really a test and don't assume rinse tank water is all that fresh. O-rings need pressure to seal- the deeper you go the stronger the seal. The vacuum system pre-loads the o-rings and helps prevent leaks on the surface or in the rinse tank (don't leave your camera unattended in the rinse tank ever). Bumping a port can dislodge it enough to let some water in. You pull the vacuum to about the equivalent of 2m depth and do it half an hour before diving, air leaks faster than water and if you don't get a noticeable leak in that time the housing is sealed properly. The force holding your port in place at this vacuum is about 20lb, the force holding the back door closed is significantly greater like about 60 lb. This is significant and a big advantage and a cheap insurance policy.

 

[Barmaglot]

The newer RX100s zoom too far and they don't work well with wet wide lenses in fact some housings come with a short port option to let the wide lenses work properly but if you put that on you can't zoom in all the way.

That is a bit of an exaggeration. RX100VA comes with a regular 24-70mm lens which fits the usual housings. Models VI and VII do present a housing challenge with their long lens, and yes, you can't go between 130 degree wide angle and sandgrain-scale supermacro on the same dive, but no camera system will let you do that anyway. You can, however, outfit them with a long wide port and have a range of moderate wide angle (24mm through flat glass) to supermacro (90-200mm with diopters) or a short port and have a range of wide-angle/semi-fisheye (24-28mm through wet lens) to moderate macro (65mm through diopter). In this way, they are kind of like an ILC.

 

[bvbellomo]

That's also the reason I have talked about the G7X rather than the RX100. The newer RX100s zoom too far and they don't work well with wet wide lenses in fact some housings come with a short port option to let the wide lenses work properly but if you put that on you can't zoom in all the way. As another bonus if you are zooming in and the lens hits the port glass inside (there is no way to stop it except for timing by you) it throws an error and needs to restart. The wide lens needs the front of the camera lens close to the port so it does not vignette.

If you are not sold on the 1"compacts like the RX100 you could look into this: Olympus PEN E-PL10 Camera & 14-42mm EZ Lens Kit with Backscatter Octo Underwater Housing

It has a micro43 sensor and is well setup to take wet and macro lenses. You can also changes front ports and install a fisheye lens which is great for reef scenes.

You can use these options bare without wet lenses , you won't get the range of shots but you can shoot fish, turtles, small sharks, other divers at a pinch in clear water, small sections of reef, large nudibranches etc. If it was me I'd get a wet lens something like this at the same time for wide angle work: Inon UWL-H100 28 M67 Wide Conversion Lens Type 1

I didn't understand your reasoning, that doesn't mean I am not sold on 1" sensors and would buy a G7X if I had to buy something today. But if I have an opportunity to learn something, I take it, especially if it is free.

I have not ruled out the RX100, but probably should if you think the G7X is better.

That PEN E-PL10 is almost the same budget, and I will consider it.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I kept my old go Pro Hero4 and got the Olympus TG6 for doing photos esp super macro.

You also need lighting for video and photos so I have two Big Blue VL4200P video lights. They work great.

 

[Blackcrusader]

What about something like the SeaLife DC2000? Am I really better with a TG6 if I have to buy a $300 housing?

I bought my TG6 with PT 059 housing, 64GB Sandisk card, extra battery and charger, dry case, two tripods, cleaning equipment camera bag all for US$500

 

[Blackcrusader]

I guess my question is how much better is a TG-6 than my GoPro for still images? And how much better is EOS RP than the TG6? And how bulky is a EOS RP with a housing and a strobe?

Difficulty of use doesn't really come into play. A full DSLR is much more complicated, but a camera I use all the time is going to be much simpler to operate. I don't think I've ever used by GoPro above water, at least not on purpose.

Taken with my TG6. Go Pro cannot get such detail or do super macro. The sea horse was taken at 26m depth on a day dive with could overhead. The last photo that sea moth is perhaps 2 cm in length only.. around 6m depth

 

[Blackcrusader]

There are tons of great DSLR underwater pictures, but only a few relatively low resolution TG6 and GoPro shots to compare. The TG6 shots by professional photographers look night and day better than my GoPro shots, but I have no idea how much of that is the user.

I went from Go Pro to TG6. There is some learning to do on settings and lighting and patience to get good shots. I am no pro just a vacation diver who takes some video and photos. One of my favourite critters is the Mantis Shrimp. The nice coloured corals I took from a few meters away with the video lights but zoomed in.