nose vent?

[SailNaked]

I had a student this weekend use up an entire tank very fast (2x others), and on closer inspection I noticed that he had a constant stream of bubbles leaking from his mask. Is this a medical problem or just a need to learn to restrict the flow of air from his throat to his nose? we gave him a 100CF tank to do the OW dives.

 

[inked59]

Sounds like he's exhaling through his nose instead of his mouth and regulator to some degree. Not uncommon at all. It took me a few hours of practicing but I finally overcame the "urge" to exhale through my nose. Basically, I learned to shut it off...

 

[SailNaked]

even when he exhales through his mouth he is also still exhaling via the nose, and while he is inhaling he is still venting via his nose. it is a constant stream does not stop at all. (unless he pinches his nose which I had him try).

 

[DocVikingo]

even when he exhales through his mouth he is also still exhaling via the nose, and while he is inhaling he is still venting via his nose. it is a constant stream does not stop at all. (unless he pinches his nose which I had him try).

Hi SailNaked,

This is not normal. As such, the student may wish to seek an ENT consultation.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[SailNaked]

it was interesting to me, so I tried pressing the purge button while closing the vents on the regulator and found I could duplicate it by opening whatever it is in the back of your throat that connects your nose to your throat and the air would go in via the mouth and then out through my nose breathing in took some practice however with the positive pressure.

I told him at the time if he cant stop it with learning to open and close the valve in his throat that he should see a Dr. or else maybe only dive with doubles.

 

[cutlass]

Non-stop bubbles during inhalation is paradoxical, assuming that he's not ascending and the 2nd stage is not delivering excessively. Leakage implies overcoming both ambient and mask pressures; the latter also determined by strap tension.

Does he also have problems with inhaling water/gagging during mask-off breathing and this despite training and practice? If so, this and your little self-experiment might be related to this coincidentally revived thread about the possibility of a soft palate (velum) defect contributing to failure of sealing the nose from the mouth: "up-my-nose-like-rubber-hose" An ENT evaluation would be appropriate.

 

[doctormike]

Yes, there are a number of conditions that cause velopharyngeal insufficiency (how's THAT for the phrase of the day?). Specifically, cleft palate (a hole in the roof of the mouth) or cases of palate dysfunction that may be seen after palate surgery or adenoid surgery. These patients have difficulty keeping air from escaping up through the VP valve in the back of the airway during speech, formed by the palate sealing against the back of the throat. Because of this, they have "hypernasal" speech (a sort of whiny, high pitched sound) and may occasionally have nasal regurgitation (which many of us have had if we laugh while drinking, and have liquid come out of the nose). This is mainly an issue when they try to close the valve during speech - try making a "k" sound and you will feel your palate closing against the back of your throat...

However, I would think that even in cases of an real cleft palate, it would be possible to learn the techniques of SCUBA diving - I haven't heard about this before, but I don't believe that you rely on your VP valve to keep from losing air out of your nose while diving. If that were the case, you would need to constantly be making the "k" sound during diving. If you think about how you breathe with a regulator, you really are controlling airflow by pressure changes, not by closing your VP valve.

If there is a steady stream of bubbles during both inhalation and exhalation, I would ensure good mask fit and technique before assuming that this was a palate problem. But you never know, maybe this is something that I haven't seen before!

Best,

Mike

 

[a22shady]

I can do that while diving and stop when I want. On occasion I do it but realize it, Not sure If i do it purposly to realive some mask pressure or not. But at times I have noticed during a dive while breathing in or out I let air through my nose and usually once I realize I am doing it I stop. Most likely just because I am so relaxed i normally breath through my nose.

 

[pjones]

This similar thing happened to me while I was doing my open water dives. I've determined it to have a number of factors that caused it in my case.

Durring my dive I was over weighted and definably not trim. I found that I was fighting myself to stay right side up and somewhat trim. This was very fatiguing.

Durring my dives I was in cold water with a wetsuit. I was very cold nearing the end of the dives but excited to get my certification card with my fiance so I ignored the cold but in return found it to fatigue me even further.

The rental regs that we used had adjustments on the side to adjust cracking pressure. I didn't understand how to use this properly at the time and therefor didn't know that it would help my cause.

Durring the dive I found that the reg would breath quite easy. Eventually fatigue set in and I found that after I took a breath the reg would always keep a positive pressure in my mouth (vortex assist?) It got to the point that I felt like I was fighting the reg to stop breathing. it was simply easier to allow the air to run through my nose than it was to fight the reg. (that sounds so silly to me as I wright this but its true).

I dive a dry suit now and know how to adjust a reg to stop free flow. In hind sight, knowing how to adjust the reg properly at the time probably would have helped the problem.

 

[heydn62]

If I understand the problem correctly, simply exhaling through your nose shouldn't increase your air consumption. If there is a constant stream of bubbles around the mask, I would question if there is a constant flow coming through the regulator. Did he try breathing another regulator to see what happened?

Just a thought.