Noob camera choice - narrowed it down

[AlienSnail]

Hi there, I've been hovering around this great forum for a while but I only joined today.
I've literally spent the entire day from morning to evening reading through camera discussions and have learned so much. Thank you to all who have discussed cameras!

Please let me introduce us/me so you know kinda where I'm coming from. Righty - we're a family of four (two teenaged lads) nature and science-lovers currently learning to scuba dive (PADI open water) and are fulfilling a long standing family ambition to take a trip of a life time to the Great Barrier Reef and to NZ Poor Knights and White Island, in July and August this year, and wish to take a camera along. Now I realise that we (mainly I - I'm always the one behind the camera) will need to concentrate more on diving than on photography but I would still like to try to take some simple snap-shots. Also we're going on two snorkal-only trips to shallow water where there'll be more of an opportunity to stay still to focus on the subjects. We intend using our scuba skills every year or two mainly around the UK, and every five years or so after saving up somewhere abroad (though nowhere near as far as Aus/NZ - that sadly really will have to be a one-off), so I hope over the years the camera will get some steady dive use, and other than that it will be needed as a normal camera as I don't always like lugging my dslr around.

Now I'm not going to get a strobe - good as they obviously are it's too much at my stage of (lack of) experience to mess around with, so I'm thinking of just sticking to two types of photography settings for now - shallow water, bright natural light with a magic lense, deeper water macro with forced flash (do I set white balance when using a flash)? I really am under no illusion that I'll be a good underwater photographer so the best thing for me is to make it as simple as possible, but would still like to take pictures with a good colour balance, hopefully up close without blur. Please may I request help in choosing a camera? It MUST be cheap as we've spent a fortune on organising the trip already (we're not wealthy, we've only ever been abroad once before and we've saved for many years for this one) and besides it would be daft for a total noob like me to go and buy an all-singing all-dancing professional kit!

So... I've narrowed it down to a new Intova c-14 for around £215, a second-hand Fuji Finepix f80 for around £100 inclusing postage (on ebay - could go up...), or a Cannon 630, also on ebay, currently at £130, both cameras promising to be in very good condition. I'm very tempted to go with the new Intova, in part because if something is wrong with it I can easily send it back, and it is well thought-of on this board, but then I do very much like the looks of the others, which I couldn't afford to buy new right now....

My other option is to buy a 'tough adventure camera' for the times we'll be snorkalling and hire a camera for the actual dives - a tough camera is tempting because we're also going rock-climbing, caving and white water rafting.

Many thanks for your opinions

 

[Mark Derail]

Trust me, a GoPro + uw led flashlight would go a loooooooooong way. Search for posts of my username in this sub-forum and solutions.

Any cheap UW camera will do nice pics at the 0-10 feet deep range on a sunny day, without the need for a strobe.
For video, one or two UW LED flashlights are great, they cost about 30-40 pounds.

Remember than you can glean pics off a video stream, Apple's Quicktime does a good job, as you can use the left arrow - right arrow keys to go move between frames.
You can put 2 or 4 "frames" unto a 4x6 print for a real nice picture.

 

[t-mac]

I think you're on the right track. I'm sure you've seen the other threads on concentrating on bouyancy first and then photography. Take things slowly and stepwise. If you're used to using a normal DSLR, I'm not sure there is any point and shoot that you will be satisfied with in the long run, but it is exactly where you should start so you can get used to diving first. Get something reasonably priced and use it alone for a while. Then for better quality you'll add a strobe, which can be used later for your full rig when you take the plunge and get the housing for your DSLR. In the meantime, you'll get used to the camera underwater and you'll get some acceptable shots that you can photoshop into something decent. I've never used the Intova, so can't comment specifically. I started with a Sea & Sea DX1200, added a strobe and now I use my Canon XSi in a Sea & Sea RDX housing with the same strobe (plus one). The main thing is to get completely comfortable with diving before you add tasks and then only add small variables at a time. Good luck and have a great time on your trip.

 

[AlienSnail]

Thank you Mark, I would never have thought of using a video camera to take stills from.

And thank you too t-mac.

 

[Randallr]

I was in a variation of your situation this past summer, AlienSnail. I hadn't dived in 11 years, was going to end my abstinence in Bonaire, and wanted to take a camera to commemorate the trip. I found my way to the GoPro Hero, and had a great time with it. It's very small and rugged, fits into the pocket of your BC, is reasonably easy to use, and for its size takes excellent videos and decent photos.

Now, there are severe limitations, of course. Without an external light source, you're really not going to get any decent shots or videos under 30 feet. You can do limited adjustments in Photoshop and Final Cut Pro - and these may make you happy enough. But, except for shots you take in the shallows, your photos won't be world class. Still, for the money, it's hard to beat. I've attached a few of the better shots I was able to take with the GoPro on that trip. Mind you, it was my first time using a camera of any sort underwater. These won't win any awards - but they give me great memories and pleasure. (I also shot some video I really love that I haven't yet posted.)

If you go the GoPro route, make sure to buy a corrective lens to adjust for the underwater blur. There are several of these on the market, and the GoPro forums in here will help you. I used the Mako aftermarket fix. It works fine. You do still get the fisheye effect, but that's easy to edit out. I left it in the last shot I attached, so you can see what that looks like.

On my subsequent trip to Saba, I rented a Sealife DC 1200 with Sealife strobe, and it took fantastic shots, and was easy to use. Its successor setup, the DC 1400, sells for $880 new - more than twice as much as the GoPro (albeit with a strobe, in Sealife's case). Its drawback, as you can read elsewhere on these boards, is that it shoots only in JPEG, not in RAW. All the photofish swimming around these boards insist that any decent UW camera must shoot in RAW.

So again, it comes down to what your hopes and expectations are, and how far you want to grow with your equipment, vs. simply replacing it or supplementing it. In my case, I bought the GoPro six months ago, then rented the Sealife on my second trip (while still using the GoPro on second dives, when the Sealife's battery was depeleted), and now on my third trip in a year, I'm buying an Olympus rig - but I'm still bringing the GoPro, because it's a fun, simple supplement.

What I suspect is you'll enjoy it, no matter what you do!

 

[Wisnu]

aliensnail,
we're family of four too - all of us has same passion on diving and love to take simple picture in our trip.
my suggestion, get the second hand oly SP-350 and PT-030 housing in ebay. It was the best UW camera set-up 3-4 years ago; raw capable.
I still keep my sp-350 as back-up. The internal flash is stronger than most of similar camera; strong enough for most macro.

 

[PatW]

I am not familiar with the cameras you mentioned. If you can fit it into your budget, try to get something with RAW capabilities. RAW allows you to set the white balance in post processing. Setting the white balance on the fly underwater adds another thing to keep track of whilst you are maintaining your buoyancy, not trying to crash into things, keep the focus, keep the exposure, see where your dive buddy is.... you have enough things to fool with, everything you can eliminate is a good thing.