Non-sealed Atomic IP issues?

[Johnsonsa93]

Hey Scuba board community,

I work as a technician at a shop that uses all Atomic Z3 (non-sealed) as our rental regulators. I have been finding all of them having drifting IP issues. Usually I can fix the issue by cleaning out the piston housing / bore which always has dirt and sand in them. I think this has to do with one specific kind of dive we do that has to do with sitting in a sandy spot for up to 45 minutes. I have a feeling the sand is working into the piston housing through the open holes and little microscopic bits are working past the piston O-ring as it moves up and down and working its way through the piston bore and onto the HP seat.

Usually I will find dirt on the HP seat as well. However I have a hard time getting the IP to stop drifting just by cleaning everything off. Usually I need to clean everything and mess with the seat a few times before I can get it to hold stable.

So my questions are, does anyone else who works with a lot of atomic non-sealed regulators see this issue? Any advice on getting the HP seat and piston to hold a better seal? Is the only real logical answer for longevity to seal them?

As a side note I convinced the owner to use the old Z3's, from the last time we rotated rental stock, as the shore regs and to seal them. I do not see the drifting issue with these.

 

[Wookie]

Yes. They are also probably not being rinsed according to page 26 of the owners manual. How are you rinsing them?

 

[Wookie]

And how much is the drift, and does it steady out, or continue to climb forever?

Spec is 5 PSI.

I don't get too excited unless it's 10 PSI or greater, or it never stops climbing.

 

[Johnsonsa93]

Tends to be greater than 10PSI climb. Just had one this morning that initially started out at 145 and QUICKLY climbed to 190+ (that's where I stopped it)

looking up the correct cleaning methods in the owners manual now but I'm sure you can imagine that it's not easy to get all of the crew members in a mid sized crew to change how they have been doing things for years. I'm thinking the only / best solutions are either buy HP seats to keep replacing them every other month or so or to seal all 30+ regulators...

EDIT: Yeah the boat crew is not technically washing them correctly since these are unsealed. The manual states, "Rinse through the ambient ports of the first stage (unless fitted with an anti-freeze kit)..." We (the crew) do a fresh water rinse which consists of a quick dunk in fresh water. No way I can convince everyone to find a hose and rinse out the ambient chamber, which is where all our problems, I'm sure, are coming from. (Sand gets into ambient chamber, tiny bits work past piston o-ring, through piston, to HP seat, creating wear in the HP seat and on the piston, letting the IP drift.)

 

[Wookie]

That's why I asked. Sealing them won't help, if they are dunking them in the rinse tank, because the water comes up the LP hose and rots the first stage from the inside.

Train your dive staff or go to a more forgiving regulator.

 

[Johnsonsa93]

That's why I asked. Sealing them won't help, if they are dunking them in the rinse tank, because the water comes up the LP hose and rots the first stage from the inside.

Train your dive staff or go to a more forgiving regulator.

I don't think the issue is the water coming up the LP hose. I have taken these regs apart a lot and I'm not seeing any issues of water damage. What I am seeing is dirt on the HP seat and inside the piston bore. I have a feeling the issue is as I described in my post above under the "EDIT". Under a Jewelers loop I can also see slight wear on the end of the piston as well as wear on the HP seat.

EDIT: Also, the shore regs (sealed) have held up fine (albeit only for two months) getting much worse treatment and questionable rinsing ( customers are in charge of this). No IP drift on those, or my reg that gets serviced once every 1.5 years or so and goes through the same treatment as the rental regs, including the very sandy dive as well as the same rinsing.

EDIT 2: As well as it's worth noting that switching the HP seat always fixes the creeping IP issue.

 

[Wookie]

You aren't using an old stock of non-jet seat seats, are you? I still have a ton of them, and they do what you say....
They aren't any good to you or anyone else except me. I still use some atomic regulators to fill my tires, but all of my diving regulators have the jet seat.

 

[Johnsonsa93]

You aren't using an old stock of non-jet seat seats, are you? I still have a ton of them, and they do what you say....
They aren't any good to you or anyone else except me. I still use some atomic regulators to fill my tires, but all of my diving regulators have the jet seat.

All of the regulators and all of the seats we have are the new jet seats. I've never actually even seen a non-jet seat for atomic. (only been servicing atomics for the last 2 years)

 

[lexvil]

I have trouble envisioning dirt working past the sealing O-Ring and traveling up the inside of the piston to the HP seat without the regulator showing signs of leaking air out of the ambient chamber. Are you sure of the air supply?

 

[Wookie]

All of the regulators and all of the seats we have are the new jet seats. I've never actually even seen a non-jet seat for atomic. (only been servicing atomics for the last 2 years)

I'm out of ideas. I've been servicing them since the beginning, I actually went to the very first service class when titanium was all there were. I've actually never even seen a Z3 (or an Stainless). My advice, worth every penny, is that you have a solution already, and that is to seal them. Seems like a lot of christolube, but better than having to replace the seat every 2 months....