Nitrox?

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How many of those divers using rented reg sets with attached consoles really know what those computers are telling them? Some have horrible user interfaces. The computer a diver has in his rental gear today may not be the same as the computer in his rental gear tomorrow, so he doesn't have much incentive to learn how to use it. In my opinion, rental computers are as good as useless to most of those divers.
Yep. Agreed 100%. A lot of the computers out there today require a pretty good understanding of the manual to know what it's trying to tell you. Some are pretty intuitive, but I'm betting that the computer in a rental console is not going to be one of them.
Two dives like that (20m, 60 mins), even on 32% and even with a SI of 60 mins, would violate NDL if one is on tables. That is putting undue trust in the DM to do a multi-level dive and undue faith in the diver that he/she will stay at a depth above the DM at all times. Dangerous diving.
I don't know why this practice got to be accepted. Maybe accepted isn't the right word, but this practice is at least not unique. It goes against what I was taught, and depending on the dives can be dangerous.
And after 26 dives I'm fairly competent and confident about my abilities.
I was about to jump on this, but then I continued reading...
I do know that I don't know it all and that I have a lot to learn. But I also know that for the type of diving I do and will continue doing, I do okay.
Well stated, and a great attitude to have. 26 dives is not a lot, but as long as you recognize that you don't know everything and continue learning, you should be fine. Always remember, it's up to you to keep you safe. While a DM may be getting paid to do that, the ultimate responsibility lies with you. If the dive plan doesn't seem right, you don't have to do it.

"I was following the Divemaster" would be a stupid epitaph.
 
Yep. Agreed 100%. A lot of the computers out there today require a pretty good understanding of the manual to know what it's trying to tell you. Some are pretty intuitive, but I'm betting that the computer in a rental console is not going to be one of them.

I don't know why this practice got to be accepted. Maybe accepted isn't the right word, but this practice is at least not unique. It goes against what I was taught, and depending on the dives can be dangerous.

I was about to jump on this, but then I continued reading...

Well stated, and a great attitude to have. 26 dives is not a lot, but as long as you recognize that you don't know everything and continue learning, you should be fine. Always remember, it's up to you to keep you safe. While a DM may be getting paid to do that, the ultimate responsibility lies with you. If the dive plan doesn't seem right, you don't have to do it.

"I was following the Divemaster" would be a stupid epitaph.

I appreciate the feedback. So far every dive I've done has been pretty simple and the DMs have always looked after the "old, new guy". I've always felt well cared for but understand that I'm responsible for myself and my own safety.

I really have nothing to prove. Dont need to go deeper or longer. I've enjoyed the short, shallow dives as much as any others. 35 mins at 30-40 feet works for me. Hell, I'm just glad to be able to dive at my age.

Oh...and last week in Roatan on a cruise I talked my younger brothers (one is 65, the other 57) into doing a discovery dive while I did my first dive. Then we dived together on the second dive. They of course struggled with buoyancy but it was fun diving with them. They enjoyed it. I've always been the adventurous one in the family.
 
OP, while I (and others) previously advised not to take the Nitrox class, Ive got a different thought.

You can use the Nitrox class as an opportunity to go over again the basics of monitoring your NDL (no decompression limits). Basically, the Nitrox class will teach you again how to monitor your NDL, including with the added time at depth allowed by Nitrox. If you actually want to use Nitrox, its very important to understand all the underlying principles, bc Nitrox can add an element of risk (oxygen toxicity), especially once you get beyond about 80 feet of depth.

With a computer its pretty easy to monitor NDL - any computer will have a NDL number (usually the most prominent number - and you dont let it get to 0. You should start reducing your depth as your NDL gets closer to zero. Some dives, especially the shallow dives you describe, you have plenty of NDL time and its not really a problem (although you should still monitor it). Thats basically what you need to know, but it doesnt hurt to know more about how diving/NDL works.

So if you have a depth gauge & a timer, and some tables - you have what you need to monitor your NDL via tables, as long as you know how to use them. However, if you yourself do not have a working depth gauge, I would not necessarily rely on all rental equipment having a depth gauge - they are fairly obsolete now, so are disappearing.

I would think wherever you go could rent a computer as well. Just going ahead and buying a computer and learning to use it may be the best route.
 
Why would one want to monitor one's NDL on a 40-minute dive to 60 feet?
 
Rental gear is fine, but with your own computer you can learn how to use it once and you're set.
I always recommend renting your computer from your home shop for a vacation if your are planning to rent. That way you can get familiar with it before you dive.
 
Why would one want to monitor one's NDL on a 40-minute dive to 60 feet?
If you didn't plan the dive, you don't know what the time or depth is till you ask the DM after (in the scenario presented). Even if you did, the computer helps you verify it was in fact a 40-minute dive to 60 feet. And if it wasn't, monitor what in fact it was.
 
If you didn't plan the dive, you don't know what the time or depth is till you ask the DM after (in the scenario presented). Even if you did, the computer helps you verify it was in fact a 40-minute dive to 60 feet. And if it wasn't, monitor what in fact it was.

The DM tells you in pre-dive briefing she's going to stay at around 18 msw, and IME they tend to be good at sticking to their planned depth. A momentary max may be 19 or 20, if there's a critter there, but they don't do enough of that to change the fact that the NDL for that dive is about 20 minutes longer than the runtime.

If it's the 2nd dive you may want to make sure your SI was over an hour.
 
I appreciate the feedback. So far every dive I've done has been pretty simple and the DMs have always looked after the "old, new guy". I've always felt well cared for but understand that I'm responsible for myself and my own safety.

I really have nothing to prove. Dont need to go deeper or longer. I've enjoyed the short, shallow dives as much as any others. 35 mins at 30-40 feet works for me. Hell, I'm just glad to be able to dive at my age.

Oh...and last week in Roatan on a cruise I talked my younger brothers (one is 65, the other 57) into doing a discovery dive while I did my first dive. Then we dived together on the second dive. They of course struggled with buoyancy but it was fun diving with them. They enjoyed it. I've always been the adventurous one in the family.
I think if you just get a cheap wrist computer, that would be fine for what you do. You can get a Mares Puck for probably under $200 and it will give you everything you need including nitrox settings for when you do that.
Slap it on and you’ll have your own personal info screen that you can keep track of instead of relying on the divemaster, and you’ll know in real time what’s going on.
As far as taking nitrox, yes do it, why not? It’s another tool to use. Any further training IMO can’t hurt.
 
2 1/2 years ago I summarized the most-quoted existing research on Nitrox and post-dive fatigue, which at that time was inconclusive mainly for two reasons: (1`) differing definitions of "fatigue" by divers and researchers, and (2) studies that looked at single dives or chamber dives rather than repetitive in-water dives. Aside from various criticisms of methodology and statistical significance, no real conclusions could be drawn at that time. Meanwhile, the anecdotal evidence for lessened fatigue continues to accumulate...

One of the interesting parts of that 6-page thread (disregarding the off-topic diversion about goats) was the suggestion that any perceived 'lessened fatigue)" was not related to the increased O2 in Nitrox, but rather to the lessened N2. In other words, the farther away you are from your NDL on a dive, the better you might feel afterward. Since Nitrox allows you to stay farther away from your NDL -- all other things being equal -- then the apparent lessened fatigue might be just because you have less sub-clinical DCS.

The critical references used in the DAN summaries are:
Chapman SD, Plato PA. Measurement of fatigue following 18 msw open-water dives breathing air or EAN36. In: Brueggeman P, Pollock NW, eds. Diving for Science 2008. Proceedings of the American Academy of Underwater Sciences 27th Symposium, 2008; 1-11.​
This publication is based on a 2007 Master's Thesis, available here.​
Harris RJD, Doolette DJ, Wilkinson DC, Williams DJ. Measurement of fatigue following 18 msw dry chamber dives breathing air on enriched air nitrox. Undersea Hyperb Med. 2003; 30(4): 285-91.​
Lafère P, Balestra C, Hemelryck W, Donda N, Sakr A, Taher A, Marroni S, Germonpré P. Evaluation of critical flicker fusion frequency and perceived fatigue in divers after air and enriched air nitrox diving. Diving Hyperb Med. 2010 September; 40(3): 114-8.​

The DAN article that summarizes this work is mainly an interview with Harris and Doolette:
That article asks, and Harris and Doolette respond:
Are there any reliable data to support claims about nitrox causing less postdive tiredness than air?
Harris: No. Three articles in the peer-reviewed literature (see the first three in the references sidebar) contribute evidence to the nitrox and fatigue question, but I am not convinced that the size and power of any of them have addressed the problem comprehensively.​
Pollock: The data supporting these claims are not compelling. This is not surprising since PO2 increases substantially in response to depth alone. However, there is no reason to argue over whether a person feels less fatigued. Research has shown that the placebo effect has physiological impact, so let the diver enjoy the sense. The important thing is for divers to stay within the PO2 limits to avoid oxygen toxicity.​

Further, on the issue of sub-clincal DCS, they say:
Would you consider tiredness/fatigue a sign of subclinical DCS?
Harris: I believe that fatigue can be a symptom of DCS, but it needs to be something very marked to impress me. Severe fatigue, such as feeling like you have the flu rather than just being “a bit more tired than usual after diving,” is a more serious issue. Rather than use the term subclinical DCS, which I do not favor, I would only call fatigue DCS if it is part of a constellation of symptoms.​
Pollock: Normal patterns of postdive tiredness would not qualify, but “unusual fatigue” markedly in excess of typical levels could be a sign or more likely a symptom. Having the diver describe the nature and degree of the effect is important to help distinguish normal from unusual.​
Despite a common impression that diving on nitrox may cause less fatigue than performing the same dive using an air mixture, scientific research to date has not found solid evidence to support such an assumption. As mentioned, the placebo effect should not be underestimated and has yet to be fully studied.​
No new relevant studies that I can find have been published since those old ones, except for this one:

Fabian Möller , Elena Jacobi , Uwe Hoffmann , Thomas Muth , Jochen D. Schipke. Oxygen-enriched Air Decreases Ventilation during High-intensity Fin-swimming Underwater. Int J Sports Med 2022; 43(03): 230-236.​

Möller et all see a significant decrease in ventilation during strong swimming for divers using enriched air, suggesting there is more going on with Nitrox than just decreased N2 uptake.

Caveat: there are many blogs and books and manuals and divers and instructors and agencies that say enriched air has no effect on fatigue, or that it reduces fatigue. If they give any citations at all, it is usually either the Harris article from 2003 or the DAN summary from 2014, in which Harris disavows his 2003 article as really addressing the issue.

The question is still open.
 

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