Nitrox Now or Later

[Genesis]

and for my "deep" diving for AOW used the gas.

It gave me extended time, which made that more enjoyable, and also allowed me to stay down much longer on my second dive of the day (I would have run out of NDL otherwise) - as it was my instructor called the dive due to time constraints (hers!) before I reached either gas or ND limits.

If most of your diving will be between 60-100' fsw with a floor at the bottom then I'd say go ahead and get the gas cert. Above 60' the benefits are less compelling, and below 100' you have to pay very close attention to MODs, which, if you're a new diver, could be problematic. This is especially true if you are diving in places with no hard floor and you are still working on buoyancy control and situational awareness.

As for "AOW", I don't know that I'd call it "advanced." There wasn't much that I felt that I learned from it other than the night dive - that was a truly new experience and well worth it. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have just done the night dive, documented it in my logbook, and that would have been that.... The last two dives, which were one-on-one with my instructor, were nice and useful - but nothing eye-opening in terms of new skills mastered or techniques learned...

 

[Spectre]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Just for the record I don't understand and don't agree with a nitrox class that doesn't require dives.

Quoted from the TDI Instructor Manual:

1. Since entry level Nitrox is essentially an information and academic based course, no dives are specifically required as there are no skills to evaluate
2. However, optional dives are desireable to effectively demonstrate the advantages of EAN use in practical field use. If scheduled, no direct instructor supervision is required buf dives should not be conducted in environments that may exceed the existing skill or depth levels of the students.
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[Scubamedicjoe]

I say if you feel comfortable then by all means do the nitrox !!!!!!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Spectre,
In the classroom we can verify the students ability to plan a dive. In OW is where we verify that the student can develop an appropriate plan for a real dive and where we verify that they can dive that plan.

It is just my opinion but I think the dives are important. I sure wouldn't want to give a nitrox card to a student who can't hold their depth well enough to stay above the mod for the mix. IMO, basic skills are evaluated in every class. I think for most agencies you will even see this in writting in the form of a requirement for good buoyancy control regardless of class. Aparantly thhis is no longer a requirement for nitrox.

On the other hand, if they have a SDI solo card they can dive alone and nobody will know if the can't control their buoyancy.

 

[Spectre]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
It is just my opinion but I think the dives are important. I sure wouldn't want to give a nitrox card to a student who can't hold their depth well enough to stay above the mod for the mix.

I completely understand. When I was searching for my class, I only found one with a nitrox class running when I wished to take it. When I inquired regarding the TDI version, they wanted to know why. One of those reasons was "no required dives".

They wanted to know why that was in my requirements, as they are perfectly willing to have you take the TDI test but take their PADI course [including the dives]. They strongly recommend anyone taking the TDI test that they do the dives. However what got me out of the dives was that they know me and know my diving skill...

I completely agree with your points, and I was actually surprised when I learned that you don't need any diving experience to take nitrox [expecially after seeing the requirements for the trimix course]. However the option was nice for those that just have a need for the card...[My test was corrected < 36 hours before my flight ]...

 

[Genesis]

you and one other instructor that I've met appear to be the exceptions to the rule.

I've seen an awful lot of people on boats who barely did better than a belly flop into the pool.

I know I was being checked out by my instructor during my AOW dives - it was obvious. That's cool - its what I was paying for, not just a card!

But there are way, way too many instructors who apparently don't do anything other than give you the cert if you turn in the answer sheets and do the dives. At least that's the conclusion that I come to from a lot of the stories I hear and the people I see...

I know some people think this is due to the shortening of the class requirements. I don't. Cutting minimum class times and dive counts doesn't cause the problem per-se - it may ENABLE the problem, but it doesn't CAUSE it.

The CAUSE is setting other than objective performance standards. If the standard for passing a test is 80% correct, then it is - that's the beginning and end of the discussion. You shouldn't pass with a 70!

As an instructor perhaps you can answer this Mike - ARE THERE objective performance standards for demonstrated skills? (e.g. "remove and replace mask, at depth, and clear within 10 seconds") or is it just "did they accomplish this, regardless of difficulty or time"?

 

[MikeFerrara]

They make an attempt at being objective but I would have to say they are at least party subjective. Pick some specific skills and I give the exact wording.

 

[Genesis]

are even in the list!

For example, buoyancy control.

What do the various agencies say (if they say it at all) about....

1. Remove and replace regulator (clear by exhale)
2. Ditto but clear by purge.

Is there any requirement that the reg actually GO ANYWHERE (e.g. you actually have to sweep for it), or is 6" out of your mouth good enough?

3. Remove and replace mask underwater (time, facility in doing so, etc.) Is actually demonstrating breathing with it missing required?

4. Demonstraton of OOA/air sharing - actual ascents required, or just getting the reg in the other guy's mouth? Facility in doing so?

5. Buoyancy in general. The "do the skills on your knees" thing makes that pretty much a joke, does it not? Ditto for trim.....

The last two were things that I'm glad I thought was important and worked on, because it wasn't something that got much work during my primary training....

 

[Aquamaniac]

In response to Genisis Queries.

Sorrento Quay Dive, Perth Western Australia.
PADI Open water Instruction. Instructional rerquirements.

1. Remove Rugulator, pass over right shoulder, exhale with the "little bubbles" technique. Rotate 90 degrees to the left, replace regulator, clear by purge. Repeat again with exhale purge.

2.Repeat again with exhale purge

3.Remove Mask, pass to buddy, wait, have buddy pass your mask back to you. Replace when ready.

4. OOA ascent from 10 meters. Short reg hose only.

5. All 4 of the above skills are conducted in the pool and then repeated on the boat, in 20 meters of water (eg. not on your knees)

Sorrento Quay Owners believe in making a good diver, not just a qualified diver.

Dave

 

[otter-cat]

grunzster once bubbled...
Does that mean with any course, as long as the book work and test is done, you can combine dives?

To be completely sarcastic - Say I did a deep, night dive on a wreck, from a boat, in a dry suit, with nitrox, while shooting video, and being propelled by a DPV! Would that count towards all or most of those specialties?

To be a little less sarcastic - All my dives for OW were from a boat. Would that mean all I have to do is the book and test to certify for the boat diver specialty?

In my understanding, you can count the first dive of any of the PADI specialty courses towards AOW. AOW requires 1 deep dive, 1 night dive, and 1 underwater navigation dive, as well as two electives. If you took 5 PADI specialty courses, including the three required ones (deep, night, uw nav) then you would qualify for an AOW card as well. You cannot mix them within a dive, i.e. you cannot count one dive towards two or more specialties or AOW requirements, even if it meets the criteria for two of the dives, so your hypothetical deep night dive from a boat could only count for 1 dive towards 1 of the specialties (or AOW.)

As far as just doing the book and test for a boat diving specialty cert, that is not enough. You need to do dives from a boat specifically for the boat diving specialty, your OW dives count only towards your OW cert.

However, if you take AOW, and subsequently take the specialty course for any of the types of dives you completed for AOW, the specialty course instructor may, at his/her discretion, count the dive in that specialty you did for AOW as the 1st dive for the specialty course, reducing the number of dives needed to get that specialty by 1. Doing those types of dives on your own, not part of a course, does not count for any of them.