Newly diagnosed....

[JanR]

with Diving Fever.

Hi. My wife and I just completed our OW certification in Tahiti and have caught the bug very, very badly.

I'm sure there are places as good, if not better, but for the time being, I can not think of a more wonderful place to get started in diving. In all we did 3 dives in Bora Bora and 4 dives in Moorea. Although we got qualified by the staff on a cruise ship (Radisson's Paul Gauguin), at no time did we feel we were working with a certification mill. Our instructor was very attentive and after reading the official PADI stanards for OW, I know that we definately didn't do just the minimum. In fact, I quite appreciated his almost draconian drills on bouyancy. Once we completed our certification the first week, we dove our last 3 dives ($5-7) with other "certified divers". We could easily tell that several of them didn't have the same instructor that we did: using the BCD as an elevator, flapping their arms all-about, not watching for other divers (got to do that lost mask drill once again when I ate someone's fin).

Anyway, I digress. Here's a few questions that we have.


1. Not concerned with the brandname or specific model, but what approach to buying a wetsuit would you recommend. Here's what I mean. We are going to Hawaii in February to vist Tracey's sister and plan to take the AOW course--yes, I am very well aware that Advanced Open Water doesn't equal being an advanced diver, however many other diving experiences to learn from will be closed to us if we don't get our AOW card. However, after Hawaii, our diving will be mostly stateside in Virginia, North Carolina, or possibly over Christmas each year in S Padre Island. We are thinking of getting a 3mm jumpsuit and then buying a 5mm "something" (shorty/step-in/etc) to layer over it with a possible hood. In Tahiti we dove with 3mm shorties with 26 C (which is 78-79F, I think) and were very comfortable...if that gives any idea of what we were used to. What is the best way to take a layered approach and spend our mony most smartly??

2. If you don't penetrate sunken ships but just want to look around and perhaps peek in, can you still do wreck dives without the Wreck Diver specialty?

3. What are the most important questions we should ask Oahu dive shops to make sure we are getting a shop that is quality? What questions should I ask to be a knowlegeable consumer?

Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll be asking more questions in the future.

v/r

Jan

 

[pasley]

Just diagnoised with Diving Fever.

Take two dives and call me in the morning. There is no cure and I am afraid it is a life long illness.

… what approach to buying a wetsuit would you recommend. ...after Hawaii, our diving will be mostly stateside in Virginia, North Carolina, or possibly over Christmas each year in S Padre Island. We are thinking of getting a 3mm jumpsuit and then buying a 5mm "something" (shorty/step-in/etc) to layer over it with a possible hood. In Tahiti we dove with 3mm shorties with 26 C (which is 78-79F, I think) and were very comfortable...

A wet suit, to be effective must fit like a second skin. It achieves its insulation value from the air bubbles trapped in the neoprene. If you are wearing one suit over the other, you would I imagine want is to fit snug, but not so snug that the top layer crushes the under layer. Unfortunately in diving, one suit is not right for all situations. Buy for what you will do most (the coldest) and rent the rest or the time. Here in SoCal where water temps are 52-58 with 54-56 being normal a 7mm with hood, boots and gloves or dry suits are the norm.

...plan to take the AOW course--yes, I am very well aware that Advanced Open Water doesn't equal being an advanced diver, however many other diving experiences to learn from will be closed to us if we don't get our AOW card.

Hmmm, reread the first part of your statement. Now allow me to rephrase whet you just said: AOW card will allow you to do dives for which you lack the experience but have the training. So in other words, you are aware that diving sites that require an AOW card with out the experience may afford you the opportunity to lean from the experience while at the same time are still learning from expeience the BOW stuff. Remember a C-Card is really more of a license to learn. Perhaps it would be better to get comfortable with your current skills and truely master them before embarking on AOW. Others will disagree. Get the popcorn. [/QUOTE]

2. If you don't penetrate sunken ships but just want to look around and perhaps peek in, can you still do wreck dives without the Wreck Diver specialty?

As long as you look, but don't touch, or enter you will be fine and no wreck certification is required. But keep in mind most wrecks are found in deep water. Also keep in mind to resist temptation and do not enter. A recent SCUBA Diver Mag (oct 2005) has an article about an instructor with a ton of dives who penetrated a wreck (a skill for which he was not certified). They recovered his body stuck in a passage way.

 

[JanR]

Melvin,

Thanks for the advice.

I knew when I posted that the whole AOW bit would bring some concerns. I've read quite a few of the threads which discusses when someone should take AOW. Many say it should only be done after 20 dives past BOW as was the old standards. Many others say that it isn't a concern.

If it would alleviate and concerns, please understand we are definately not going to go do AOW so we can push the envelope with each successive dive. In fact, even after AOW, we are much more keen to stay above 60 feet for most of our diving. The advantage that we see by doing our AOW now is the following:

1. It allows us another opportunty to do five dives with an instructor whose only mission is to teach us. While we have and will do "fun" dives, I don't expect the DM to teach us, although we are ready and eager to learn from him and our fellow divers.

2. It introduces us to some additional skills-navigation, drift, etc that would benefit us even if we are only diving within the limits of our BOW certification.

2. It gives us a taste of some of the specialties that we could continue with in future training...whether that is night, deep, etc (all depending upon which 5 we do in AOW).

3. When we feel comfortable enough with the BOW-limited diving and want to a dive in the graveyards off of NC, we can schedule that trip without scurrying to find time to only then get AOW qualified before the trip. (Yes, heeding your advice to keep our hands at our waist and the rest of us completely outside of the wreck)

Really, we're trying to be responsible with our diving. We feel very comfortable with what we have done so far. But I understand that what that means is that we are comfortable diving to about 55-58 feet in little current, 100+ft visibility, and relatively warm waters. We don't know what we don't know, but we know we don't know it.

Is the layering approach not wise? Our own wetsuit is something that we would rather get at the outset of this disease. We noticed with using the ship's wetsuits, that some dives you'd have a comforable suit, other times it wasn't quite as comfortable. We'd like to take that out of the equation. BCD and regs are something to buy probablyy in 2007 after we've better figured out what we like and what we don't like.

Again, thanks for taking time to answer some of my questions. Your concern was received by me as I assume you meant it. Thanks.

v/r

Jan

 

[spectrum]

Congratulation on the certifications and welcome to a great sport. We'll be doing AOW for the same reasons. If you haven't dipped your toe into night dives you may find that thrilling and relaxing all at once. We got into it pre AOW.

I'm not expert on warm water dives but from my experience you should get good use from the 3mm suit. But I think you'll hit a wall early on with repetitive dives

If more protection is needed then consider adding a hooded vest. The head is a big heat sink so as soon as 3mm alone isn't enough you need to deal with the head. Going with a hooded vest will cover the head, vastly improve your neck closure and mute any back zipper seepage. a 3mm vest with a 5mm hood worn under the fullsuit will do wonders.

If you find your arms chill easilly add some gloves.

After that consider a 5mm suit and you can layer the very same vest under that.

As Paisley mentioned a shorty sized to fit over a fullsuit is not likely to have a useful fit by its self. The thicker the base suit the more this is true. Some do get acceptable use of suits used that way but then it's a case of perfect match or tolerance of a poor fit.

I do prefer seeing the fullsuit on top since it provides a single membrane seal for the other layers to work under.

Pete

1. Not concerned with the brandname or specific model, but what approach to buying a wetsuit would you recommend. Here's what I mean. We are going to Hawaii in February to vist Tracey's sister and plan to take the AOW course--yes, I am very well aware that Advanced Open Water doesn't equal being an advanced diver, however many other diving experiences to learn from will be closed to us if we don't get our AOW card. However, after Hawaii, our diving will be mostly stateside in Virginia, North Carolina, or possibly over Christmas each year in S Padre Island. We are thinking of getting a 3mm jumpsuit and then buying a 5mm "something" (shorty/step-in/etc) to layer over it with a possible hood. In Tahiti we dove with 3mm shorties with 26 C (which is 78-79F, I think) and were very comfortable...if that gives any idea of what we were used to. What is the best way to take a layered approach and spend our mony most smartly??
n

 

[spectrum]

Really, we're trying to be responsible with our diving. We feel very comfortable with what we have done so far. But I understand that what that means is that we are comfortable diving to about 55-58 feet in little current, 100+ft visibility, and relatively warm waters. We don't know what we don't know, but we know we don't know it.

I think your head is in the right place and you seem to be off to an exceptional start based on your writing.

Here is where I see the decision maker.... 2 points:

1. You are certified openwater divers duly qualified to head out and exceute appropriate dives and you should be comfortable doing that. Otherwise we're talking about remedial OW not AOW.

2. When you feel you are competent with your basic skills to where you can concentrate on new skillls and have a meaningful,learing experience then go for it. If you feel you are at that point then have fun at AOW!

Asside for the AOW issue you mention some nice diving conditions so far, I'm not sure you will be as blessed when you come stateside in Virginia, North Carolina . A local orientaion dive may be a good thing the first time out. That enviornment would be the ideal place to make the AOW move IMO. When the visibility is limited you really do have to trust yourself and your compass.

Is the layering approach not wise?

Jan
In my opinion it's brilliant I have 3,5, and 7mm wetsuits. a 3/5 hooded vest and a 7mm hooded step-in vest. I wear them in all sorts of combiantions from the upper 70sF in to the 40sF and it's great to have the flexibility of not beng over protected and dealing with the comensuarate weight.

One tip is to log you weights very carefully by combination if you end up with multiple suits. I actually have a grid of each garment combo referencing proven weights for fresh, salt, skin and scuba dives!

Pete

 

[Doc Intrepid]

#1. Call Ron and Dori Carmichael over at Splash Dive Center in Alexandria, Virginia. You can try all the stuff on, and they offer travel globally - someone on staff has no doubt dived where you're going. They're reliable and good to work with. (You might consider doing a Rescue course...)
http://www.splashdivecenter.com/

#2. Don't go inside a wreck without training. Don't go inside a wreck without training. Don't go inside a wreck without training.
http://www.scubadiving.com/training/lessons_for_life/trapped_inside/

Regards,

Doc

 

[pasley]

Layering can work and work well, just you need to make sure the suits that are going on tip are the proper size, not too big, not too small, but just right.

The hooded vest is the way. Hoods with bibs always, and I mean always bunch up at some point as you tuck them in. You have to fold the bib over as you tuck it in, creating a funnel for cold water, usually down your back. Hooded vest eliminate that failure.

Carefull records of your weight requirement for each combination in fresh and salt is a must

 

[JanR]

You all provided some good input which we'll take advantage of.

Doc, I stopped in on Splash a couple weeks ago. I live about 2 miles from their shop and will undoubtedly be giving them a bit (defined as as much as the wife will allow) of business in the upcoming years.

As we begin the search for an instructor in Oahu, what questions should I be sure to ask to insure a quality instructor? Questions that come to mind are the following (in no particular order):

1. Cost? (Duh-but more specifially rental equipment, books, military discount, etc)
2. Which dives beyond the requried deep and navigation do they offer for their AOW?
3. Conditions (depth, surge, current, etc) of the dives?
4. Experience level of the instructor?
5. Class size?
6. Nitrox add-on available (still undecided on this, but feel worth asking)
7. Boat or shore dives (assume most are boat, would like at least one shore dive as we haven't done that yet-maybe our navigation dive???)
8. Do they own their own boat?

I know I'm missing something(s). Trying to be a knowledgable consumer.

Thanks in advance,

Jan

 

[Doc Intrepid]

You'll want to ask them whether there are any equipment items that you will be required to purchase to take the courses you're looking at (for example, some shops require you to purchase some sort of fixed or pulsing light to attach to your equipment for night dives, some boat captains require you to purchase some audible distress signal like a DiveAlert, etc.); and what the ratio of supervision to students is (not simply 'class size').

Most certifying agencies allow class size to increase if the instructor has multiple dive masters. This is neither good nor bad, but larger classes take longer to cycle everyone through and your personal time spent performing skills may be less, because there are simply more students for the DMs and Instructor to deal with.

Don't do any drift dives out there without having humongus surface marker bouys (SMB) each and a signal mirror (a real one) to flash rescue aircraft. The mirror slips easily into the back cover of your wetnotes, which you should have anyway. For more details search the SB archives using words such as "Dan Grenier", "Zanzibar", and "Normannia".

On Oahu you may have limited options as to which shop/staff to go with. There is a guy out at VA Scuba in Manassas who teaches in Hawaii each year, I'd give Jerry a call out there (or drop in) and see if he has any recommendations.

Best,

Doc

 

[asaara]

I'm not expert on warm water dives but from my experience you should get good use from the 3mm suit. But I think you'll hit a wall early on with repetitive dives

If more protection is needed then consider adding a hooded vest. The head is a big heat sink so as soon as 3mm alone isn't enough you need to deal with the head. Going with a hooded vest will cover the head, vastly improve your neck closure and mute any back zipper seepage. a 3mm vest with a 5mm hood worn under the fullsuit will do wonders.

If you find your arms chill easilly add some gloves.

After that consider a 5mm suit and you can layer the very same vest under that.

Probably the best idea, if you want to get the most use out of the fewest pieces and you often dive water that's cold, but not so cold you need a wetsuit, is a 7mm 2 piece suit, the kind where you've got a standard sleeveless farmer john underneath a long sleeved shorty, and a separate hood, rather than the ones more commonly seen in some places that have a full suit as one piece, plus a vest with short legs and a hood.

That way, if you dive in cold water but just don't like the hood, or it's not quite *that* cold, you can ditch that, and you can wear either the top or the bottom, depending on your preference (buoyancy, what body parts get cold faster, which one's drier/less icky today), in warmer water. You can comfortably dive water warm enough for some people to just be wearing skins in one of those pieces, really! And the front zips are easier to get into than the typical back-zip shorties.

If you decide you want to do more warm water diving and don't want to cart anything that thick around with you/need more mobility, you can pick up a 3mm shorty pretty cheaply, particularly if you hit somewhere like Costco. Not everyone likes hoods, and they can be pretty big air traps, so if you're one of those people, the comfort you gain might balance out what you'd lose from being a little bit colder.