Newbies and dive shop responsibilites

[vjongene]

I just wanted to relate a story from several years ago, not only because it ended up teaching me a lot, but also because I think it raises some interesting questions about the responsibility of dive shops towards novice divers.

In early 2000, my wife, my 14 year old son and I took a vacation in Brazil (I was there for business anyway). We decided to spend a few days on the island of Fernando de Noronha, and to do some diving there. My son and I had been certified a year before, but our total experience was only about 10 dives each, including the four OW certification dives. All of our diving so far had been under the close supervision of an instructor or DM.

I had contacted the dive shop in advance to make sure that they could accommodate us. Since we had only snorkelling equipment (fins, masks, snorkels), we needed to rent BCDs and regs - not unusual for new divers. When we collected our regs, I was surprised to see that they had only SPGs attached, but no depth gauges. So we were going to dive without depth gauges... Not an auspicious start.

We had booked three two-tank trips. Each boat (they had two) actually ran three of these every day! As you may imagine, the boats never went very far from the harbor, and the surface intervals were ridiculously short. The first couple of dives went fine. I logged the depth of the dives by asking the DM afterwards - I did have a dive watch for keeping time. We stayed with the group and everything was fine. During the briefing of one of the following dives, the DM informed us that we were going down to 35 m (115 ft). I told him that our level of experience may not be sufficient for such a dive, and he replied that it was "no problem". So we went. The dive turned out to be an extended struggle against a fairly strong current. My son and I (he was my buddy) were trying to keep up with the group, but ended up way behind them. I also noticed that I was running through a lot of air. Finally, the DM stopped and we caught up with them. By then, I was down to about 30 bar. I showed my gauge to the DM, and he gave me his octo. We ascended together, with the group (the dive was over anyway), did our safety stop, and surfaced. There was no debriefing or discussion. Anyway, my Portuguese was about as poor as the DM's English. But I was rather shaken when I thought about what could have happened. Fortunately, my son barely breathes under water, and he had plenty of air that I could have gotten to in a pinch. OTOH, we did not nearly have the skills to make a safe ascent without a line or a depth gauge.

The lessons I learned from this were many, and guided much of what I did over the next few months:

1) Do not rely on a dive shop to supply you with life support equipment. I bought regs and proper consoles for my son and me, and we never rented again.
2) Do not rely on a DM for your safety (an often repeated mantra on SB). My son and I went through rescue training that same year. We do not need DMs any more.
3) Even if you are told by an "authority figure" that it is OK, do not start a dive that you do not feel completely comfortable about. BTW, I never had a bad feeling about this dive beforehand, but I didn't like the fact that it would be much deeper than we had ever gone before.
4) Never start a dive unless you have a clear plan (another mantra on SB). I do not recall the DM giving us any indications on what to do should we lose the group. My son and I were clueless.
5) When you see that you are running low on air, start thinking about possible courses of action right away, and inform your buddy.
6) In retrospect, we should probably not have dived at all, given the lack of depth gauges. But we had come to the island because of the diving. It had cost us a bomb, and no small amount of planning. I still have not worked out what would have been the right course of action. Probably to scour the island for depth gauges or computers. Now of course, we always carry dive computers if we travel to any destination where diving may be a possibility.

But I also feel that the dive shop acted in an irresponsible manner. It is ridiculous to assume that customers will have their own computers or depth gauges when you are renting regs to them (btw, the shop did not rent wet suits either). The DMs should adapt the dives they are proposing to the level of their customers. And they should keep an eye on the newbies. Dive shops do have a responsibility towards their clients. If this had happened in France (I can already hear the catcalls from the anti-French contingent here), the shop would have been found negligent on two counts: (1) failure to ensure that customers are adequately equipped and (2) taking customers on a dive that is not adapted to their level of training. These obligations are actually spelled out in the law. I wonder if may be a lesson to be learned there too...

 

[baitedstorm]

Ok, so I might get slammed here on this one but when it comes to diver safety, I'm extremely passionate about it.
At what time did you actually say to yourself.... I'm not comfortable doing this dive without a depth gauge. I understand that you only had 10 logged dives, I too made a very bad dive decision when I first started out that, like you, could have cost me my life. Many people said it was the dive operations responsibility to make sure I was safe and informed, but I clearly disagree. If you were trained by even a so-so Instructor, then you know better, and some of this rant and blame you are responsible yourself for.
I DM on a boat and see all kinds of divers on a daily basis. Thankfully, I had an amazing Instructor who DEMANDED I be the best he could make me (many sore muscles and squashed egos later)so I can usually spot a problem before it even occurs. I've seen divers that actually come onto the boat with nothing but an spg (as far as gauges go). I am extremely matter of fact during the dive briefing to make sure everyone understands what I'm telling them. I ask each and every diver if they have any questions, fears or concerns. I also ask if everyone is on computers or tables and have the proper gear for the dive. Once I get a yes from each one, I can do little more than take their word for it and glance over their equipment. Just last week I had a kid out that had no computer, and only a spg. Now, is this my fault? He had the same briefing as everyone else, rescue certified with many dives under his belt, and he still made the dive. There HAS to be some level in which a diver holds their own life precious. Understand that while we all want to have a good time, none of us wants to get hurt. We've all done stupid things at one time or another and I applaud you for putting your story out there for ridicule so that someone else might learn from your mistake. We need to be accountable for our actions and place the blame where it should lie. I'm SO glad that you guys were ok and survived to dive again, but just something to ponder, what if things wouldn't have turned out the way they did? Is your life or your sons expendable enough to take that risk?
Human life is irreplaceable, play it safe, no matter how expensive our gorgeous the dive site is. You might just live to dive another day.

If you want to read what happened to me you can click this site [red]Bad Dive[/red]
I wont sit here as the pot calling the kettel black without putting myself out there for the exact same ridicule. Maybe together, our stories might actually give that next new diver the courage to say "No way man!, I'm not diving like this"

 

[Orlando Eric]

There seems to be a shift of responsibilties in the past few decades. How did we get to the point where shops and charter boats are even considered to be responsible for a certified divers actions? Scuba Divers where once taught to be very responsible for themselves and to work in buddy teams.
You showed up to a SCUBA shop asked about taking classes. The response went something like.."Oh, so you THINK you can be a SCUBA diver huh? Prove it! We have a class starting at the pool next week. You will be swimming laps, drown proofing and doing pushups/ situps. If you can PASS that we are going to have classroom study. How are your knots? Can you tie a Hitch, a Bowline and a Sheet bend?"

Once I flip out the appropriate card for the dive that should be it for the boats legal responsibilities. Granted 115' on a OW should have been denied.

When you spill hot coffee on your lap do not look to sue McDonalds because you burn yourself for being clumsy.

When you pull a Coke machine over on yourself trying to dislodge a drink and it kills you, hope that your family keeps your name a secret, not sue on your behalf.

When you load a Glock, point it at your leg, pull the trigger and it goes bang, it was not the gun's fault for not having a selectable safety.

BE responsible for yourself. Dive the conditions for which you where trained. If it seems like it might be beyond you.. IT IS! Diving is great! The sights amazing. With Training, Experience and Gear it is safe. However make no mistake about it, SCUBA can kill you as dead as Lincoln!

Eric

 

[Damselfish]

Sounds like you learned lots of lessons, and that's good. It sounds like you knew most of these things before you did these dives even as a newbie, as you should have, and that's good too. But you didn't act on what you knew, that's the bad part. Be ready to skip a dive or call a dive when things are wrong, no matter how expensive or far it was to get someplace.

It doesn't matter what the law says in France - you weren't in France. Of course it would be good if all dive ops did better than this one did, but you are responsible for yourself. Better to avoid a problem, then be able to point to a law after the fact. As far as the dive shop making sure you are properly equipped - no - this is something you are responsible for. That's what your card means. For all they know you did have a computer or that watch you were wearing was a computer. Did you speak up? This isn't something that is a surprise, you didn't have to get in the water to learn you had no depth gauge.

Should the DMs adapt the dives to the level of their customers? Perhaps, but what if the customers have a variety of abilities? Do they have to do a dive that is ok for the least experienced diver? The other divers may have been expecting other things, maybe these were the best local sites, and not be happy about that. They did tell you the depth before the dive instead of just going that deep with no notice, and you properly questioned it, but then you went anyway. The current was a problem, perhaps they didn't know ahead of time, in some cases they don't. Continuing to dive against a strong current may have been wrong but I don't know enough about the whole situation to know what was the right thing for everyone to do.

The surface intervals were short. This again is not a surprise. You can chose not go back in the water.

Should the DMs keep an eye on the newbies? That would be nice, many or most places do. But the role of the DM varies from place to place, sometimes they are strictly tour guides, and you need to learn up front what to expect from them. There's nothing that strictly defines the role of a DM everywhere, and I doubt your training said there was. Always be careful of making assumptions.

 

[Tobagoman]

First, I am glad you and your son are alright.
Second, DM's do not plan your dives for you, they give you any relevent information for YOU to plan your dive around. The onus falls on your shoulders on whether to dive a dive or not.
I'm glad you advanced to Rescue Diver, that was a smart move.

 

[vjongene]

I am not particularly surprised at the content and tone of the responses so far. Basically, everyone agrees that the decision to make a dive under a particular set of conditions is the diver's, and his/hers alone. I have no quarrel with that. I also admit freely that the decisions I made during that particular trip were bad ones, and I do not shirk responsiblity for them. I have never given a thought about suing the dive shop, or anything along those lines.

But I also think that people who take divers on boats and under water DO have a responsibility to ensure, to the best of their abilities, that the dives are safe for all participants. Where I live, there are many people making a living as mountain guides. Their job is very similar to being a DM. You take people to dangerous spots, and bring them back alive and happy. Mountain guides take the safety of their clients very seriously. They assess their level of experience and adapt the itineraries. They give advice, make sure everyone is equipped properly, help out if someone is having difficulties, adapt the pace of the climb to the slowest member of the group, etc. No one has to hire a guide, but relatively inexperienced climbers are advised to do so. But the decision to climb a particular summit is the client's alone, and the safety of the climbing party depends on the safety of the actions of each of its members. Hiring a guide does not mean that you abdicate any of these responsibilities, but he is there to help you assume them. Frankly, I do not see why scuba diving should be fundamentally different. If you take a job as a DM, part of that job is to do as much as you can to bring your clients back alive (as long as this doesn't endanger your own life of course).

What could the dive shop owners and DMs have done for us in this case? Tell us in advance that we would need depth gauges or computers; advise us on the spot as to where we could find such instruments; advise us that a deep dive was planned, and that we may not want to go on this particular boat; kept an eye on us during the dive, making sure we were not left behind; etc etc

 

[MikeFerrara]

Before you book a trip, you need to know what kind of dives you're booking.

You need to know what role the DM is going to play. It could be anything from a professional buddy who will be right beside you to some one who oversees dive activities, gives site briefings and never even gets in the water.

 

[DMJim]

Hoo boy...this is a good topic,

Ive gotten so spoiled on having a computer every time I dive. It's air integrated, tells me depth, time, breathing / ascent rates, even the temperature.

If I had to go back to PADI's plastic card 'Recreational Dive Planner' I'd be cranky about it. I could use it to plan a dive only because I teach it to students every once in a blue moon. I suspect not many divers even know where their RDP is once they finished OW class. The RDP and the plastic 'wheel' is a dinosaur now that computers are common on most rental gear in the USA.

Once you use a passport to get somewhere...all bets are off. Who know what Costa Rica or Palau or Truk is really going to have in their rental department. Smelly wetsuits with holes in them. Old crummy SPG's.

I think its smart move to take your personal equipment with you. You know where it's been, its condition, etc.

 

[Iruka]

On the widespread use of computers over dive tables: it's funny sometimes when we do a deep dive, 100~130' and get back to the shop, where some of the divers pull out their old PADI RDP table....seeing that the NDL for 130' is 9 minutes, and we did, say, a 50 minute dive, their eyes get REAL big for a few seconds, until I explain the concept of multi-level dives, and that we might have spent 4 or 5 minutes at the maximum depth, and a looooonnnnggg time hovering over the reef at 20~30'.

 

[ParamedicDiver1]

Diving is a dangerous sport. Now the danger factor can be greatly reduced with the right gear and continuous training. I think that we forget sometimes that we are involved in a sport that takes us to another world, one that our bodies are not built for. We take for granted all the dives we have done safely and all the times we may have pushed that envelope and came back. We need remain ever vigilant while diving, while it is the most fun you can have in a wet suit, it is still a dangerous sport that needs and requires our respect. And one more thing, if you mess up, it is your fault, don’t dive above your skill level and if you don’t have all your gear, don’t dive. Ok, that is my 2 cents.