newbie Dm proves lack of experience.

[Spoon]

guys just came from a weekend of horrible diving. dove in puerto gallera and was plagued with bad experiences. to cut the story short, we could have had dives worth enjoying if it werent for the irresponsibility and lack of experience of the DM. i know hes a good guy and means well but the divers in the group could have been lost, injured or worse. lets just say that we all made it to the surface safely becasue we had good training.

dive objective: drift dive and visit a shark cave. do a negative descent to 100 then follow the dms to the cave.

as we descended i noticed that the two groups became separated, not to worry we had a dm with us. current was very very strong and we had to remain close to each other in order to get swept by the current. before i know it we are ripping with the current and one by one the members of the group were all getting separated. at this point, getting lost and breaking up it was wise for the dm to signal to abort. he signalled that it was ok and we should just ride with the current. at this point i was getting worried and grabbed a hold of my girlfriends hand and signalled that we abort cause we were still at 100ft and she was nearing 1000psi , she was signalling me that it was unwise and that we should stick with the dm. i grabbed her bc and started to slowly ascend. we made it to the surface with enough air to spare. we drifted 3 kms from the site. the others were not so lucky as they stuck to the dm and drifted 10 kms from the site. we were picked up by a boat after floating for 10 mins. the others were picked up hours after.

shouldnt the dm have aborted his dive after the conditions were far worse than anticipated? should he have aborted the minute we lost the other group? i dont know. one thing i know is that HE should have aborted the minute some of the members drifted. i knew what was happening that is why i aborted the dive, should have done it earlier but i trusted the dm. now i know better. just found out that this guy is a new dm and that he has never dove the site before. i know that dms are only guides and that we are ultimately responsinle for our own saftety. but cmon its this guys strike 3 already. what should i do?

 

[djkpsu]

As I am doing my DM right now, I think this is a good learing example. Personally, when I do make DM I doubt I would lead a group on a site I have never dove before. Maybe if it was a group of my friends and I was the most experienced, but not as a paid Dive Guide.

Additionally, with the type of current you described, I think it would have been proper to abort the dive, or at least alter the plan if possible to a part of the site with less current.

You did the correct thing when you became uncomfortable with the dive by aborting with your buddy. You should never second guess that. Like you said you "are ultimately responsinle for our own saftety."

With respect to the DM, if you can talk to him about why he continued the dive. The two DMs could have planned to continue even if the groups were seperated, but probablly should have mentioned that in the briefing. Also, maybe he felt that the conditions were not that bad and did not recognize that you were not comfortable. When leading a group the weakest link in the chain should dictate the flow of the dive.

Those are just my thoughts. DMs (or higher) - How was my analysis?

 

[hermosadive]

Its hard to say without being there and knowing the dive site. I would have to asume the DM was more experienced than you (based on your profile) and was making the best judgement call based on the situation as he saw it. Drift dives to 100' are not exactly beginner dives. The fact that the other divers all surfaced with the DM leads me to believe that he had the situation under control. Even though they drifted further, at least they were one group.

Asking for peoples opinon on a situation that they have no first hand knowledge is a tough one. We have to assume you've presented factual informaton as well. If the DM and group were together, why were they "picked up hours after"? Also keep in mind that just because you are a DM that "everything is going to be okay". Mother nature and people tend to do whatever they want, whenever they want. Thats alot to manage.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I'm not a DM but it seems to me as soon as even one diver, it should be a buddy team, get separated the DM should have aborted unless they had signaled their intentions to him. With the strength of the current, he obviously could not have told the rest of the group to stay put while he went to look for them, especially if he didn't even know they were gone. You did the right thing by going up from 100' when your girlfriend was down to 1000 and for the DM to say it would be OK to continue doesn't seem correct, especially when he ended up 7 miles down current from you.

edit: was it not the divers in your group who were getting separated, or did you mean just getting separated from the other group?

 

[Spoon]

With respect to the DM, if you can talk to him about why he continued the dive. The two DMs could have planned to continue even if the groups were seperated, but probablly should have mentioned that in the briefing. Also, maybe he felt that the conditions were not that bad and did not recognize that you were not comfortable. When leading a group the weakest link in the chain should dictate the flow of the dive.

we should have aborted the minute the other members started to drift away. it was pretty bad i even had to tend to one of the drifting divers becasue the DM was not even looking back. he assumed that we could ride the current. in fact one of the other divers panicked and was going to jet to the surface but i prevented him by pulling him down. i told him to calm down and stay close to me and my buddy( his buddy drifted far beyond our sight)

the dm in fact mentioned in the surface that the current was pretty bad and that riding it was the best option. cmmon!! common sense to either swing perpendicular or abort, at the end of the dive only one diver remained with the dm. other 4 divers drifted to separate locations and me and my buddy were the first ones to get picked up becasue we aborted the earliest.

the dm should have scouted the location and assessed the current. in the briefing he mentioned that there would be a mild current. boy was he wrong

 

[Spoon]

Its hard to say without being there and knowing the dive site. I would have to asume the DM was more experienced than you (based on your profile) and was making the best judgement call based on the situation as he saw it. Drift dives to 100' are not exactly beginner dives. The fact that the other divers all surfaced with the DM leads me to believe that he had the situation under control. Even though they drifted further, at least they were one group.

Asking for peoples opinon on a situation that they have no first hand knowledge is a tough one. We have to assume you've presented factual informaton as well. If the DM and group were together, why were they "picked up hours after"? Also keep in mind that just because you are a DM that "everything is going to be okay". Mother nature and people tend to do whatever they want, whenever they want. Thats alot to manage.

we confronted the dm after the dive and he admitted that he gravely did not anticipate the current to be that strong. i also forgot to mention that we were the first to be picked up, the others were picked up hours later in separate locations. the dm being the last one to be picked up with only one diver with him.

he was even reprimanded by the other Dm (much more experienced) to abort the dive the minute we started separating each other. but not necessarily separating from the other group. what is even worse is that several of the other divers had no prior experience with currents that strong. In my opinion, he should at the very least aborted the minute we started losing divers, he should have also assessed the site before actually diving in with the group. thats my take.

 

[Spoon]

I'm not a DM but it seems to me as soon as even one diver, it should be a buddy team, get separated the DM should have aborted unless they had signaled their intentions to him. With the strength of the current, he obviously could not have told the rest of the group to stay put while he went to look for them, especially if he didn't even know they were gone. You did the right thing by going up from 100' when your girlfriend was down to 1000 and for the DM to say it would be OK to continue doesn't seem correct, especially when he ended up 7 miles down current from you.

I GUESS THE DM JSUT MADE A WRONG CALL. IT HAPPENS, NO NEED TO OVER-RATIONALIZE RIGHT? MOST OF THE DIVE THE DM DID NOT EVEN LOOK BACK, MOST OF THE GROUP HAD TO FIGHT HARD TO KEEP HIM WITHIN SIGHT. BY THE TIME HE LOOKED BACK, THEIR WERE ALREADY MISSING DIVERS.

edit: was it not the divers in your group who were getting separated, or did you mean just getting separated from the other group?

WE GOT SEPARATED GROUP AS WELL AS LOST DIVERS FROM OUR GROUP. THE WHOLE THING WAS A MESS.

 

[clgsamson]

as we descended i noticed that the two groups became separated, not to worry we had a dm with us. current was very very strong and we had to remain close to each other in order to get swept by the current. before i know it we are ripping with the current and one by one the members of the group were all getting separated. at this point, getting lost and breaking up it was wise for the dm to signal to abort. he signalled that it was ok and we should just ride with the current. at this point i was getting worried and grabbed a hold of my girlfriends hand and signalled that we abort cause we were still at 100ft and she was nearing 1000psi , she was signalling me that it was unwise and that we should stick with the dm. i grabbed her bc and started to slowly ascend. we made it to the surface with enough air to spare. we drifted 3 kms from the site. the others were not so lucky as they stuck to the dm and drifted 10 kms from the site. we were picked up by a boat after floating for 10 mins. the others were picked up hours after.

Glad you and your gf are ok. Your training served you well. The next time you guys dive the same profile with a similar DM you'll know what to do.

Me and my wife always have a secondary dive plan in case something what-you-describe happens (it already did, twice already). Yes we experienced the same dive profile, no discussions (as if we can underwater), just eye contact, ascended, deployed signal balloon, 3 mins stop, surfaced, got picked up and learned from it.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Whoa Spoon. I'm agreeing with you. The capitalized letters in my quote are not from me. The reason I added the edit was the post before mine made it seem like just the 2 groups separated, not divers in your own group, which is what I thought you meant. As I said, if there are any divers missing from a group means that the DM has to stop, signal the group to stay put and look for the missing diver or divers. If a buddy team is running low on air as you were, he could have watched you and your buddy ascend and continued the dive. In this situation he did not even know they were missing you said because he did not look back and with the current he would have had to abort if he had known.
The DM obviously made mistakes. I did not state it more forcefully because I was not there. There is no reason to BLAST ME. Read carefully before you jump down someone's neck. I did NOT say" I guess the DM just made a wrong call. It happens, no need to over-rationalize right"
Geeze, give me a break.

 

[Spoon]

Whoa Spoon. I'm agreeing with you. The capitalized letters in my quote are not from me. The reason I added the edit was the post before mine made it seem like just the 2 groups separated, not divers in your own group, which is what I thought you meant. As I said, if there are any divers missing from a group means that the DM has to stop, signal the group to stay put and look for the missing diver or divers. If a buddy team is running low on air as you were, he could have watched you and your buddy ascend and continued the dive. In this situation he did not even know they were missing you said because he did not look back and with the current he would have had to abort if he had known.
The DM obviously made mistakes. I did not state it more forcefully because I was not there. There is no reason to BLAST ME. Read carefully before you jump down someone's neck. I did NOT say" I guess the DM just made a wrong call. It happens, no need to over-rationalize right"
Geeze, give me a break.

big misunderstanding chief, my intentions were not that at all, i was using the caps in another application that i did not notice they were on on this one. i just noticed they were caps when i read your thread. if it seemed i was blasting you then i am sorry.